Discussion in 'Philosophy & Religion' started by BabyRain, May 22, 2007.

  1. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    That's whole mouthful of questions there... Hmm, I'll break them up in parts and try to give an answer based on my beliefs of the Buddhism Way of Life ok?

    First of all, I should probably stress that all my beliefs listed here are not based on the common Buddhism teachings. They are the teachings of the Dalai Lama ie the Tibetan branch of Buddhism.

    Ok so anyway;I should start by giving a technically occult explanation of what is reincarnation.

    Reincarnation is the act of coming back to this material world from the spirit world. The time sense on a material world and that of the spirit world is quite different. and so one can learn lessons much faster on a material planet than one can in the spirit.
    People keep coming to Earth - or to other Earths - in much the same way as one goes to school, where it is intended that one shall learn certain lessons. At the end of the school day (death) one returns home.

    As one works through one class, one is promoted to another class until one has learned, in theory, all that the school (this Earth) can teach (life lessons) and then one goes on to a higher grade of school, and from school to a college or university.

    In much the same way one comes to this Earth, and then keeps coming back to the Earth to enter different classes. When one has learned that which the Earth can teach, one moves on to a different world, just as the adolescent moves on to a higher class at school.

    As to what happened precisely when a person dies; I believe in this --

    The astral body will travel to a place to undergo PURGATORY... This is not HELL in the strict sense, it is nothing like the one which is usually portrayed. It is more like a HALL OF MEMORIES in the astral world.

    There is a short stay in 'purgatory' where the soul, or Overself, sees the mistakes committed in the life just ended...
    This purgatory is not a punishment centre, it is not the local jail and there are no devils who gleefully prod you with red-hot toasting forks. Purgatory is merely a planet where you shed some of your conceit, some of your illusions, and where you face up to the fact that although on Earth you had loads of money, etc., and people were afraid of you, here it is quite different, you did not bring your money with you.

    After the said process; then one will either be reincarnated back to Earth; or evolve to the next dimension (graduates). There are nine dimensions existing, we are upon a three-dimensional world. Unfortunately, it's quite impossible to picture a fourth or fifth dimensional world to a person living in the third dimension.
    For example, a one-dimensional being could only exist upon a line. People in the fourth dimensional world would view us as what we view a one or two dimensional being. (like a cardboard)... there's a lot more to dimensions; but that would be too much to explain here.

    And then to answer your question why is there an increase in human population;

    I trust (from my own deduction from the readings) it's because the real truth is much more complicated than it is. There's not only ONE plane of existence; there's NINE planes of existence and the Earth is merely one of them. Let me draw you a picture... Imagine you have a school set up somewhere. Then a certain number of pupils enrol in your school, let's say 50. Two years later, the number increases to 100. Do you ask yourself as to where these pupils come from? Easy; there may be an increase in childbirths but these children may also have came from other parts of the town/city.

    Many of the 'spirits' or 'souls' may have stayed in the astral plane and they vary according to the degree of evolution they have reached. People do not reincarnate because of their karma, but because they want to learn something more. You don't necessarily go to college to pay somebody else, you go to college because you want to learn something.In just the same way, people come to Earth because they want to learn something. These people may have been staying in the astral planes or dwelling in some other planes. There are quite a lot of different worlds, and one will go to different worlds just as at school, you have to go from class to class or grade to grade; or transfer to a new school.
  2. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    And to answer your next question, yes I believe that reincarnation applies to every being on this Earth and other planes as well; not only those who believe in Buddhism.

    Now other living creatures... Assuming you are talking about animals here; I would say based on my beliefs;
    Animals are entities which have come down to this Earth in a special shape, in a special form, in order that they may do their own task in a manner most suitable for their own evolution. Thus, to answer your question, no they do not just cease to exist... (compared to Christianity which believes humans are above the rest)

    Oh and I must also stress here that Time, which plays an important part in the life of Humans, but that which we call "Time" differs from man to man and animal to animal. Animals have their own conception of time, and their conception of time is quite different from that of humans. Animals live at a different rate. An insect which lives for 24 hours of human time can still have as full a life as a human living for 70 years, the insect can have a mate, can raise a family, and see its own family have their families in turn. If the allotted span of an animal is 20 years, it could be equivalent to 70 years in human life.

    Animals go to their own astral worlds and have equal opportunities as humans.

    So anyway, on the subject of reincarnation...
    Horses do not reincarnate as daffodils. Much as the same way humans don't reincarnate into animals and vice versa (contrary to the general Buddhism teachings).
    The animals have their own type of evolution, different and not necessarily parallel, form of evolution to follow. So they are not inter-changeable entities.

    So I must stress that Humans are NOT alone in the astral world or any other planes. Animals go there too. Humans are just one of the many forms of existence; just like aliens for example. Animals go to the astral plane, they go higher as they merit it just as humans do. One of the big difficulties with the Christian religion is that they think humanity is the highest form of evolution possible... they think that all creatures were made for the satisfaction of Man.

    So I hope I have addressed all of your questions sufficiently... And I certainly hope you take your time to read ALL of them <_<
    Anymore queries?
  3. is it possible to reincarnate into inanimate objects? if so then how long will you last like that?
  4. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    If it's not any obvious to you, I have bolded the words and hopefully that answers your question. And INANIMATE OBJECTS? An inanimate noun refers to things that are not alive. They don't even have a LIFE in the first place.
  5. are the general Buddhism teachings wrong?
  6. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Like I said, I am not here to argue who is right or who is wrong and what not.
    I believe in my beliefs and you in yours. So, when you ask me that question, are you trying to trick me?

    Jun asked me about my beliefs in the reincarnation concept; so I gave him a detailed explanation based on what I believe.

    The general Buddhism teachings did mention that a human will be reincarnated into a pig; or sth else if he was previously a bad-ass criminal as a form of punishment; which I don't believe in. I used MY OWN rationalization to choose what to believe in, which is the Tibetan Buddhism where I find myself agreeing to most of the teachings; and NOT to believe blindly just because someone said it's the word from God or whatever.

    I can only believe in my beliefs and other people in their own. And one will come to know the answer when it's time.
  7. atleast we agree on something
  8. 無得頂

    無得頂 Well-Known Member

    The 9 different planes idea is interesting but not believable. I still think if one reincarnates, one will come back to earth as a "next life." As there why the human population is increasing, it could be possible that one being can be a mixture of different souls. That would explain the different personalities and appearances of people.

    What kind of question is that?
  9. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    It's cool with me. Like I said in the concept of free will, one chooses the Path to believe in and when one is ready to accept another he/she will be open to it. Just like you may find yourself more attracted to the Christianity teachings; so you convert to Christianity.

    And believe me when I say I had difficulty grasping the Tibetan Buddhism teachings at first and even disbelieving some of them. But later, I found myself more open to the ideas stated in the teachings...

    It's not a wrong path. Everyone has their own Paths and choice of beliefs. As long as you adhere to the general 'morally good' teachings of any religions/beliefs.
  10. babyrain said something contrary to the general Buddhist teachings.
    Hence, i said "are the general teachings wrong".

    and we resolved it in agreement.

    i hope you can understand it now ive laid it out for you.....
  11. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Well if I may add; I did at first, believed in the teachings that a human may be reborn as an animal as a form of punishment..

    But as I said, I found myself 'changing lanes' after I came across the interesting Tibetan teachings which make a lot more sense STRICTLY TO MYSELF only.(in case anyone tries to twist my words) <_<
  12. 無得頂

    無得頂 Well-Known Member

    Is it possible that the 9 planes is all on earth? It could be just the different levels or angles of human perspective.
  13. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Oh... you misconstrued my meaning there of the Nine planes... No, the nine planes don't exist on EARTH itself.

    Earth is just one of them. In fact; it was mentioned that Earth is the 3rd plane of all the planes.
  14. 無得頂

    無得頂 Well-Known Member

    I understood that you meant 9 different worlds. I just thought there could be another explanation that there is a possibility that all 9 planes are on earth instead.

    So one's soul would move up or down in the 9 planets depending on their actions right? If a person is good, they will go to the 4th plane, 5th plane, etc. When they reach the 9th plane, they go to Nirvana?
  15. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    No, when you have made yourself a place in, let's say the 3rd plane... You remain there and continue being reborn in that same plane if you don't graduate. Just like you don't get demoted to a lower class from Primary Three to Primary Two if you fail ur exams. You continue on in Primary Three.

    That's where the concept of reincarnation comes in. And Nirvana is actually talking about the state we achieved after we graduated from Earth! Lol. So there are still many more steps to go...

    but right now, even to attain Nirvana itself ie graduate from Earth is very very tough.

    I'm making a post on the subject of Planes... Coming soon :p
  16. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    *Note: This may be a very alien concept to most of you and certainly a very difficult idea to accept... So just read with an open-mind.

    Planes of Existence:

    Before I go on about the Planes of Existence, I must tell you about the concept of OVERSELF (it maybe a very new word to most of you indeed).

    There is a lot of confusion about ego, soul, Over-self and all the rest of it. Can you image yourself as a Puppet? If you are able to, then this concept may be easier to grasp.

    The Overself is a soul, the super-ego, the super-being, the overseer, the one who manages us from some distant plane of existence. Overself is the real "I".

    In Sanskrit; the word Overself is termed the Adhyatma, and in Sanskrit, it is the whole NUCLEUS, the whole POWER, the whole fount of our existence. A point from which all feelings, all senses, everything about us, originates and everything about us, returns.

    Many people are not able to understand what they are and why they are. They wonder why such an all-powerful person as the Overself shall be constrained to deal with just one poor puny little human. Well, it it not as simple as that.

    The Overself is like a puppet master. Just as the manipulator of puppets can manage the strings of several puppets at once, so can the Overself manage the Silver Cords (the cords connecting our physical bodies with our astral bodies) of quite a number of different people. A person can be in Engliand, and have another person in Malaysia, Africa, Australia, or even in another planet; they can ALL be under the control of the same Overself...

    We might say that these are like inhabitants of parallel worlds, because according to some beliefs, everything that has ever happened, and ever is going to happen, has a common denominator. The past, the present and the future are one.

    It is like being on a ground in a street, you cannot see around the corner, and so that which is coming aroun dthe corner is in the future to you... But if you go up in a helicopter, you can see that which is approaching the corner, so you can see the future clearly.

    Throughout history, there have been cases where men or women have been suddenly 'possessed' and have done things for which they were normally quite unfitted. Consider the case of Joan of Arc: a young girl who spent a lot of time alone, it was stated that she heard voices, and those voices exhorted her to lead her country. She did so, she became as a man, wearing armour and leading men into battle.

    But what really happened is that the strings of the puppets became entangled... Joan of Arc, a young girl had her Silver Cord entangled with a person perhaps in another country, perhaps on another planet, who had certain things to do. Joan rationalised and made the voices say the things which applied to her own conditions.

    There ARE parallel worlds, there are worlds which we cannot see because they are of different vibrations. We can see light, but we cannot see radio waves, but yet they travel at much the same speed.

    We can see the world in which we now live, but what if another world is superimposed upon it? We can't see that world any more than we can see radio waves, but we may be able to visit it in our astral bodies.
  17. 無得頂

    無得頂 Well-Known Member

    So one's future may be the present for another or one's past may be the future for another? The past, present, and future is just the perspective of a person but other people could be able to "see" it. The concept is almost circular.

    Basically, all humans are controlled by many Overselves. An Overself controls a few people from different countries or planets. When an Overself mixes or entangles the "strings" of the people it controls, then the personality and thoughts of the people whom he controls also gets mixed up.

    That's about what I understood from reading Babyrain's post.
  18. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Yes, you did a good job there of summarizing your version of what the concept is like. :)

    On the concept of 'parellel worlds' there are such things because everything must have its counterpart in a reversed state; just as the same as you can't have a battery which is only positive or negative. There must be both.

    A parallel world is a world in a different dimension, a world which is much like Earth, but yet is in a different dimension.

    Supposing you go to the other side of the world in the twinkle of an eye... now are you living in the past? That is, have you gone back to yesterday, or have you travelled to the future? According to your calendar, you will find that when you cross various timezones, you travel either backwards or forwards as much as a complete day. So it is theoretically possible to move a day into the future according to your basic time, or to a day in the past. Having agreed to that; you should be able to agree that there are various dimensions which cannot be easily explained, which nevertheless, do exist, as do parallel worlds.

    This Earth we live upon are confined to three dimensions, for this is wholly a 3-D world.

    Not only is there a 4th dimension, but beyond the world of the fourth, there are the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and the 9th. In the ninth, for example, one attains realisation and is able to comprehend the nature of things, one is able to comprehend the origin of Life, the origin of the Soul, how things started and what part mankind plays in the evolution of the Cosmos. Until then, we as humans on the 3rd Dimension are only able to come up with our own ideas of all these issues, and not aware of the real Truth...

    In the ninth dimension, also, it is believed that Man, still a puppet of the Overself, is able to converse face to face with his Overself.

    One of the greatest difficulties in Science is that scientists have set up all sorts of extraordinary and arbitrary rules and if one dares to contradict anything that these group of scientists say, then one is really ostracised. For example, certain astronomers had much difficulty when they taught that Earth was NOT the centre of creation because some early "wonderful men" had taught that the Sun revolved around the Earth only, and that everything existed for the comfort of Mankind.

    It is indeed hard to comprehend the fourth dimension, let alone the fifth, sixth and so on.

    The best thing is to consider first, an ordinary tape-recorder... running at a very, very slow, slow speed, less than an inch a second. At such a slow speed, one could have a tape message last for an hour. But supposing we made that tape play back at, for example, a foot a second; then the speech would be quite unintelligible to us. Before we could comprehend the message in the tape; we should have to play the tape at the same speed as that employed in recording it; ie the Overself.

    The Overself of a human, or any other creature either, has a number of tasks which must be accomplished. Supposing we have an evolved Overself who is anxious to progress to other planes of existence, one who is anxious to go up and up and up to different dimensions. In that case, the Overself might devote one-tenth of its ability to dealing with the body on Earth, and the rest of its abilities might go to dealing with bodies on OTHER planets, or other planes of existence. Or it might even be without puppet bodies on other planes of existence, and be moving in what one might term, pure spirit, instead.
  19. 無得頂

    無得頂 Well-Known Member

    Everything seems to be logical so far in Babyrain's explanations. The questions left would be about the Overselves. Seems like the Overselves are superior beings to me, very much like gods. Are they the ones who created the 9 planes? Who created the Overselves themselves? What is the planes of existence, is it like heaven?

    Just like Babyrain stated, in the example of the geocentric model, people originally want to look for confirmations to prove that earth is the center of the universe. People would begin to say how moons revolve around planets which revolve around earth. Those almost seemed like "excuses" but people were blinded by it because they believed that there is no way that earth is not the center of the universe.

    Back to Babyrain's explanation, many things seemed like "forced explanations" just to prove that the theory is correct. Of course, since there is no evidence at the moment to prove anything, one can never be sure whether the Tibetan teachings of Buddhism are correct or not.
  20. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    i've read about 95% (only 95% b/c there is 5% of your text that i don't really understand) of your post and teachings on Tibetan buddhism. and i have to concluded that your religion takes a FAR more amount of faith than Christianity.

    lol. -thumbs up- for having the guts to explain your religion. i respect you for that. -bigclap

    a few questions , if you mind answering --
    i understand your analogy of going to school and each life is like going to class. at the end of the day (or death), you are evaluated on whether you are able to pass or not pass to the next level in the "school". however, my question is "if you don't pass -- how do you know what you did wrong?"

    in school .. if you fail an examination, you are given back the examination and allowed to ponder over your missed answers. but with reincarnation you don't have that chance. since logically, we don't remember anything of our past lives. how do we know that we are not making the same mistakes over again? is it a leap of faith -- that as along as we are doing "good" in this life. we might have the chance of a better life in the next one or even enlightenment.

    when i started to read your Overself post --- i stopped. you believe in a God and a God can make mistakes. <_< i'm not bashing you ... i'm stating the obvious.