^ Did you blame God in any way when you failed? and if you did, what was his role in your failure and what should He have done? (answer from how you saw it at the time)
I wouldn't blame him, but I think it was part of his plan for me to fail and make me reflect over my actions and the way I prolly didn't take year 3 as serious as he thought I should have. He knows how I feel, how I think - and when I was continuing to make mistakes, I think he just stepped back to watch me walk into a pit you can say. And when I did, I had to call out to him to bring me out again - because there was no other option available.
DashX - what about those who never heard the preaching of god? Let's say some tribe in the North Pole? What happens to those poeple? What if you weren't born in a xtian country. What if you were born in Iran, Syria etc?? Lastly, have you read the bible in full? Or are you like most xtians pick and choose only the good verses in the bible to follow. I mean no disrespect in this post. I just want you to see how others see religion and be fair.
hi nice post. Im answering, not debating, so for those who want to e-debate, try 'www.carm.org'. The bible says there are two groups of people, those judged by the law when they die, and those who are not judged by the law. According to the bible, the Law (Gods commandments) leads a person to Jesus Christ because we all know we have broken the commandments so we need our sins to be paid for (first and foremost) and forgiven. As the bible says and I believe, Jesus is the only way. Those who live and die not knowing of Jesus will be judged by the Law the same as those who know of Jesus but don't do his will, if they have broken the law they will end up in hell as they deserve. Hell is where lawbreakers go, on earth a criminal goes to prison, in the next life, such go to hell, according to the bible of course. If every human got what they truly deserved, we would all be in hell as we have ALL broken the commandments, we have all told a lie for example and the bible says: Revelation 21:8 ..all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Some supposed Christians and non-Christians would go against the bible and say those who don't know about Jesus go to Heaven. Well if that's the case, Jesus shouldn't have commanded us to spread the gospel to every nation because that increases the chance of a person going to hell if they don't obey. Rather, Christianity and every Christian with knowledge of the bible should be wiped off the face of the planet so everyone can go to Heaven on the 'ignorance' bus. Makes no sense and unscriptural. BTW there are many Christians in Persia and surrounding places, they may not broadcast it as much but they are there as they have always been there, Christians, Jews and Muslims from ancient times. And to be fair, you shouldn't use Islamic countries as an example because they are ALL well aware of Jesus and the bible along with its claims, they just choose to believe it has been changed, otherwise Islam is wrong. For the last question which was not directed at me, I have read it page for page, I agree, many don't bother reading it, never mind cherry picking. I believe it all, believe it or not, many supposed Christians don't. Though ive read it all, I am not yet aware of a bad verse i should follow, maybe you are, fill me in if you like.
Bulla - thanks for taking the time to reply. Your answers are quite interesting. But I would have to agree to disagree. If it is as you said about the 2 laws. I would rather be in the law for those who don't know Jesus. Since I would be judged after I die for the things I've done during my lifetime and not have to follow the dogma that comes with being a xtian. With your example, being told about Jesus, you simply put that person in hell instantly and that person would have to find a way out of it through the believe system. But if one never heard of Jesus, and just live a good moral life, IF there is a god, then I would think he is a just god and forgive and accept me for who I am, since we are all his children. Right? As for your comment about Islam being wrong, I don't think that is fair. I would say 70% of Islamist are actually peaceful. Only the extremist Islamist are violent and use religion to gain power and manipulate people. What you see on the news is mostly those 30% who gives Islamic religion a bad name. To be fair, they say the same about Christianity. So it is like the pot calling the kettle black. And to be honest no one knows for sure which religion is the true religion or if there is a god or not. Don't forget both the bible/quran are man written. As for the bible, I'm surprise you believe it all. I guess that's the difference between logic and faith. For one I can not believe in a talking snake, people living to be 900 years old, the Noah's ark etc. And if you read the bible as you claim, the old testament has many bad bible verses. Here's a few for food for thoughts. GENESIS 6 & 7 Unhappy with the wickedness of man, God killed every living thing on the planet except Noah’s family. Men, women, infants and animals drowned in unimaginable terror and agony. LEVITICUS 26:27-29 God threatened hostility, punishing people for their sins "seven times over," making them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters. NUMBERS 31:17-18 God commanded Moses to kill all of the male Midianite children and "kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." The virgins were presumably raped. (NOTE: How could the soldiers know which women were virgins?) DEUTERONOMY 21:10-13 According to God’s law, if an Israelite soldier was at war with an enemy, and he saw a beautiful woman that he found attractive, he could capture her to be his wife. She must then shave her head, trim her nails and discard the clothing she was wearing when captured. She could mourn her father and mother for a month. If the soldier wasn’t pleased with her for any reason, he could "let her go wherever she wishes." JOB 2: God allows Satan to smite Job’s body with horrible boils "from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head." Job scraped his afflicted skin with a piece of broken pottery. His wife tells Job to "Curse God and die." Job’s friends found him unrecognizable. This is how God treats his beloved children. This sure doesn't sound like a JUST god.
^ Hey i see what you mean, about people who dont know God and live a good life (by our standards). I tend to use this example to try and get my point across... Question: If a person robs a bank, what happens when they get caught? Answer: They go to prison. Question: If a person robs a bank and gives the money to the poor, not spending a penny on themselves, what happens when they get caught? Answer: They go to prison. Even if you do good, you must pay for the bad you have done, the good moral (by our standard) person has broken the commandments making us criminals like the bank robber. But God is so Just that even a lie carries an extreme penalty as you know by the verse i posted I do know people who dont want to follow God, not because they dont believe, but because they dont want to change their life, dont want to conform to His will etc etc. Thats up to the individual, we get one life and one chance according to the bible, its up to us how we live it. Also no, we are not all his children. Funnily enough i spoke to someone 2 days ago who said the same thing, this verse cleared it up. John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name, We are not children of God by default, this is according to the bible, and im guessing this concept is born from the bible and somewhat distorted a bit. --- --- I think you misunderstood what i said about Islam, first I am a Christian, so i believe Islam is the wrong path, one of my best friends is Muslim and we have talked a whole lot about religion. Back to what I said about Islam, I said they believe the bible to be wrong, otherwise Islam is wrong. It is one or the other as both religions conflict on many matters. Hope I cleared that up. I made no mention about killing and violence so i wont comment on that. -- -- Its up to you if you wish to believe it or not, if you've read it and you don't believe it then that's also up to you. thanks for the verses btw!!!! GENESIS 6 & 7 God wiped out everyone on the earth, the bible says everyone was wicked back then, thinking evil continually. Because of Gods Justice the world was wiped out and we started again. LEVITICUS 26:27-29 threatened hostility! hehe, that made me chuckle, what site did you get that off. Anyway God warned the Hebrews that if they want to follow Him, then they must do just that. If they turn against God, God will turn against them and stop protecting them. No food and starvation can result in cannibalism. What actually happened though? I bet the site you got that verse from doesnt tell you that *wink* NUMBERS 31:17-18 I cant comment on assumptions. but here is a good explanation on that event. http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/...were-only-virgins-left-alive-among-midianites DEUTERONOMY 21:10-13 Clarke's Commentary on the Bible And seest - a beautiful woman - No forcible possession was allowed even in this case, when the woman was taken in war, and was, by the general consent of ancient nations, adjudged as a part of the spoils. The person to whose lot or share such a woman as is here described fell, might, if he chose, have her for a wife on certain conditions; but he was not permitted to use her under any inferior character. Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible And seest among the captives a beautiful woman,.... Whether a virgin, wife, or widow, according to the Jewish writers, even though another man's wife; so Jarchi (c), and Maimonides (d); the marriages of Gentiles being reckoned by the Jews no marriages: and hast a desire unto her; being captivated with her beauty; some understand this of the strength and rage of lust, but it rather signifies a passionate desire of enjoying her in a lawful way, as follows: that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; to be married to her in a legal manner; for though it was not allowed the Israelites to marry any of the seven nations of Canaan, nor indeed with any of other nations continuing in their idolatry; yet they might marry such as became their captives and servants, and were wholly in their own power; and especially if proselytes to their religion, and which this fair captive was to become before marriage, as is by some gathered from the following things to be done by her; though after all, this was only a permission, because of the hardness of their hearts, as is said of divorce; and that such marriages were not very grateful to God appears, as some have observed, from the ceremonies used before marriage, to render her contemptible; and the easy dismission of her afterwards, according to the sense of some interpreters. (c) Vid. T. Bab. Kiddushin, fol. 21. 2.((d) Hilchot Melachim, c. 8. sect. 3. And yes, he could let her go, the part the website failed to mention is the woman can not be sold or treated as a slave because she has been dishonoured her. I dont agree with all the customs back then, but I don't agree with many things we do today either. JOB 2: I cant bring myself to comment on this one because the person who wrote it on the website you got it off has clearly not read the book of Job. Maybe you could read it? totally up to you though. --- --- God is Just, fortunately He holds back for now, otherwise me and you would end up destroyed the instant we sin, that would be justice but fortunately he is also merciful and patient. If i was in God' postion the world would be an empty place because I would have lost my patience looong ago, God is able to leave most of it for the appointed day (Book of Revelations). Anyway, ive done my part in this thread, im sure you don't agree with me but at least you've had a Christian response. Take care.
As with all xtians, this was the kind of respond I expected. defending god for his cruelty and make excuses for him. Any normal person reading those verses would not think god is JUST. btw those verses came directly from the bible, not off of some random site. the verse in job is job 2 verse 7. Anyways, I appreciate your reply even though you haven't answered all my questions. Just to let you know. I've been catholic all my life, from catholic school to alter boy to leading bible school classes for over 20 years. All I have to say is do your research, ask questions, look at the facts and use the brain that god gave you. There is no afterlife, this is the only life, cherish it. And like I said if you are believing in god just in case there is hell. Then you also need to learn all other religion and believe in their gods just in case your god is the wrong god. Peace out!
Two points that I'd like clarification on: 1) You say if non-believers do wrong, they go to Hell (fine, I'll submit to that point). But how come Christians say non-believers (whether they do wrong or not) automatically go to Hell, as if non-believing is wrong? 2) So wrong doers who believe are forgiven? The problem is, majority of Christians believe the two points I've outlined, and should that be true, I think all that shows is that Christ/God (should he exist) is the most racist and discriminate person ever, and as a non-believer, I refuse to believe that. As a Buddhist, I appreciate the teachings of how to conduct one's self in life taught in the Bible is good, as are the teachings of all other religions. But to say "you're going to hell for not believing, and you're going to hell even if you sinned but you believe" is honestly pretty retarded (not saying that you said it, but other Christians have said it). Please clarify.
^ The way how i put it is we don't necessarily go to Heaven or Hell for believing or not believing. The bible says we are all heading for hell by default because we have all broken Gods law (His commandments), it says we are children of wrath. So if any man goes to Hell, it is Just and fair as we have all broken the law. Not believing is not necessarily the wrong that lands the person in hell, what lands a person in hell is having to answer for ones own sin and the wages of sin is death. The only other alternative is having it washed away/forgiven and becoming born again (John 3:3), and according to the bible it's impossible to have your sins washed away unless you believe Jesus died for your sins and you follow Him. So though it may not be the non-belief itself that lands you in hell (sin does that), it is the belief that is required for Heaven (otherwise you cant Repent, trust in Jesus and do Gods will). Also its not just a case of acknowledging or believing, it requires action also. Look at this verse. James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? it takes more than just believing in God, even Satan and the devils also believe in Gods existence, it takes action, obeying the bible and living according to it. So if you say you follow Jesus yet you're getting drunk on the weekend and sleeping around then maybe such a person needs to question their faith. Another verse: Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Its like the same above, believing yet living in a life of sin will not be acceptable for anyone, we all trip up now and then but we we get up, ask forgiveness and move forward. habitual sin is not acceptable. So in that case, as you said, you can end up in hell even if you believe Jesus is real. The bible says that the path to Heaven is narrow and few find it, its not all easy, especially with the internal conflict we may have inside ourselves. But it says to Repent, trust in Jesus and obey His commands. we may sin, in my case i may say a swear word which is a big thing for me as i don't use it in my everyday language, we are not perfect, but we ask forgiveness and move on. in that situation you are no longer judged by the law but you enter Gods grace as Jesus paid the price for your sins. JUST believing in Jesus means nothing at all. I understand that more than likely i have not answer your question, i tend to get that response on forums which is why I rarely bother on forums but this is a good site to look at, it may have answers to some of your questions, you can also question the author, he always answers. http://carm.org
Bulla - I'm happy that you live a good xtian life following your god's law. If anything, that is about the only good about religion. But it saddens me that you require religion to be a moral person. And it is a slap in the face to tell those who don't believe, that they are going to hell. There are tons of people out there who don't believe that are genuinely good people. People do a lot of stupid things in the name of religion. It has caused more harm than good. If the Vatican give up a 3rd of it's riches, it can save many lives and feed many that are starving. I was once invited to a mega church. My jaw dropped when I saw the stadium like stage and concert like sound system. Fancy interior, Marble floors and state of the art decorations. They even have a separate building for childcare with full basketball gym and tennis courts. I'm sure it wasn't cheap to build. But when you walk outsides there are homeless begging for money. How sad is that? I was floored when the pastor asked for a third offering and collection bins was being past around. I'm sure they raked in thousands that day. And they have 3 services a day. You seem to have a very level head compared to some other xtians I've chat with. Have you been indoctrinated when u were a kid? Or did you turn to faith at a later time when you had a choice of your own? Again I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I respect all people with or without believes. After all that's what God teaches us right? As you can see I don't use vulgar language in my discussions. That's what's wrong with other atheist/agnostics which I hate, because it gives us a bad image. We are always looked at as the Angry Atheist. When we are very logical and level headed individuals who believes in science and logic. I also find it very offensive when our politicians try to use religion to control the polls and even more offensive when they try to use their religious believes to make decisions for us. What's your view on that? Are you a Rick Perry or Santorum supporter?
dont quote me on this but I believe it states somewhere "Accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour and believe he died on the cross for your sins" is the way to heaven
well if that is true, there are 7 billion people in this world, a faction of them claim to be xtians, let along other sects of Catholicism that don't even agree with each other. So just for the hell of it (no pun intended lol) lets say 1 or 2 billion people will go to heaven. that means god will have to send 5 billion to hell to be tortured and burned for eternity. Think of those who has never heard of jesus or was so unlucky to be born in countries that are not majority xtians, like Japan. Does this sound like a JUST God who preaches that he loves all? Think about it!
In the end is up to you or any person to believe or not so its just useless to argue here about what or who is right or wrong. As a Christian I would preach the word of God but I would not tell people they are going to hell for not believing. I would just state what I believe in with reference and it is up to them to believe or not. I would not force people to go to church or believe.
Thanks for the kind words, I've had some of the vilest things said to me because of my faith but that's life, its not a popularity contest. I was not a Christian until I decided to look into God and religion and such, that was when I was an older teenager. I wasn't raised in a Christian home going to church, also I am not Roman Catholic, Just a Christian as followers of Christ were first called in Antioch. I follow the scripture alone, not non-biblical things. Acts 11:26 and when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass that for a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught many people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. I dont think you need religion to be a moral person, I never claimed that, As a Christian I can say there are kind and caring (by our standards) wiccans and pagans, muslims (I know some), etc etc etc out there, the issue is the sins these kind people have already committed and will commit throughout life, they must be paid for, they can pay it themselves (In Hell) or they can have it paid for. I also find it very annoying when politicians use religion, I have had a go at Americans many times for falling for the same trick, it happens time and time again and will always happen more than likely. But some of us have wised up and don't fall for those shenanigans. As for what you said to kdoct, that is why Jesus specifically commanded us to spread the gospel to every nation, i don't think there are much nations that don't know who Jesus is but there is still work to be done. If you come to find that the bible is true then you'll get your chance to face God on the day of judgement, maybe then you can make your case against God and see how it goes. But if you do that, be sure that you understand what the bible says, its unwise to go to court unprepared, misunderstand one thing and your case may fall apart. thank you for sharing your views, im out of here now, ill leave it to the others should they decide to come here. Take care.
See, as a non-Christian, I too can preach the word of God, your God. I preach the teachings that your God laid out, teachings that I deem would help me become a better person. However this notion of requiring to believe in God, thus be forgiven, and enter Heaven (should it even exist) is what I have problems with. How does it matter what god you believe in, if you use their teachings to better yourself? The key difference I find in multiple religions is that some religions require you to believe in a Godly entity, whereas other religions require you to focus on bettering yourself, regardless of any Godly entity. Having said that, what's more important? Believing in a God, or bettering yourself? Because I'm a Buddhist, yet I take teachings from ALL religions to better myself, and Buddhism doesn't restrict that. So why does it matter what god you believe in? It seems to me people are wrongly prioritizing based on speculated theory.
I saw this on reddit: What if you are rich, and a philanthropist who aids those in need? I have not read the Bible, but a lot of verses make Jesus seem like a really unreasonable douche, and if Jesus does in fact exist, I doubt he's a douche. People really need to take their heads out of their asses, and judge for themselves the logic and reasoning of what they read. I guess that's the problem with Man. Logic, Reason and the ability to judge for oneself are attributes that are sorely lacking in this world.
Wasnt my intention to respond here again but when its your passion..., anywho.. Matthew 19:21-24. What is that account about? who is it about? how did it come about? you should try to read the verses before and the verses after. you said you had not read the bible, fair enough but maybe you should, even a bit at a time if you're going to be finding verses and quoting them. Then in time when people isolate a verse or two in the bible you will be aware of the bigger picture. This was about the 'The Rich Young Ruler', he was self righteous and believed he had kept the whole law, Jesus dealt with him very skilfully and in the end he walked away knowing his sin. Read the full story here. Matthew 19:16-26 16And behold, one came and said unto Him, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" 17And He said unto him, "Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God. But if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the commandments." 18He said unto Him, "Which?" Jesus said, "`Thou shalt do no murder; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; 19honor thy father and thy mother; and, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.'" 20The young man said unto Him, "All these things have I kept from my youth up. What lack I yet?" 21Jesus said unto him, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell what thou hast and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in Heaven; and come and follow Me." 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. 23Then said Jesus unto His disciples, "Verily I say unto you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. 24And again I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God." 25When His disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, "Who then can be saved?" 26But Jesus beheld them and said unto them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." If you don't read what it is about it may seem very illogical. If you care to read a bit about the Rich young ruler then take a look at this article. http://www.letusreason.org/Apolo24.htm Peace.
