I totally agree. I guess I'll answer this or else I will be label (if not already) "dodging" important questions. when I read your respond to my post with the story about you going to a course that intertwine all kinds of religions to try and "understand" one other. the first thought that occur to me was "interesting, who administer this?" b/c it seem to me like a very "Buddhist" thing to do, no offense. but correct me if i'm wrong, Buddhism is somewhat of an generalize branch of all religion. what i mean by this is that - as long as you practice the "good living" standard of Buddhism (which is taught in all of the major religions) then you are Buddhist (of course, not physically claiming it but showing attribution of a Buddhist). if I may quote: so, it would be typical of a Buddhist like what BabyRain has tried to do with another thread is to draw similarities within the major religions in the world. i'm not saying that is a bad thing. but difficult to comprehend and accept for a Christian and/or even a Muslim. Acceptance of another belief (imo) is believing that their way of thinking is correct and valid. However, that is the problem with acceptance. If a Christian is to "accept" the possibility of another religion existing; then it would nullify the existence of Christianity. Since, in fact, Christianity promotes the ideals of a mono-theistic and religious standpoint. That does not mean that Christianity is blunt, stupid, and narrow-mind. No, it is simply the design of Christianity and to the Christian, the design of the universe. So, of course there will be conflicts and disagreements between Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/etc. Fundamentally, they cannot be the same. Are you saying Christianity is a religion which promotes hatred between believers and non-believers? Encourages disharmony and insults thrown at one another? i don't think that what master_g is trying to imply nor myself. Hate is a powerful word, imo. I restrain myself (b/c of my past experiences) to use that word as little as possible. So, i don't believe Christianity promotes hatred towards the non-Christians, or at least I don't (and I think master_g doesn't too). hahaha ... b/c if Christians "hated" non-believers than there will be no significant amount of conversion into Christianity. since all non-believers will view Christianity as a haven for hatred and ill-will. plus you are not alone, many of the ppl here have been to "understanding religions" course/meetings too. i too also been to meetings between other religious individuals and i must say to you, BabyRain, from your description of your course, you have attend one of the better meeting (assuming of course if there were no confrontation and heated agruements in the meeting at all). In my experience, there is always one or two individuals from either both or just one side of a religion that has a stubborn and strong standpoint; refusing to listen to another's opinions and viewpoints. And is only there to agrue (if not publicly, but privately among the other student/members/individuals of the religious forum) Even in some situations, that individual(s) will physically try to stop the speaker or disrupt the topic at hand. That is why religion is such as difficult subject to talk about. and without strict mediation and rules - some of the individuals would speak out sternly without any regard to the other ppl's feelings in the room. with that said. i have apologized over and over. b/c my intention is not to offend, but to inform. however, there are time when a subject/topic that i want to speak about has the potential to offend another party. believe me, that wasn't my intention and to imply that it was, is placing words in my mouth. overall, religions that support the ideal of having only one way and religions that support there are multiple ways cannot be in unity at the end (death and after). for if the one-way religion is true, the others are false. and if the all-way religion is true, the other religions are lies and its members are liars.
@ MG and AP " Be as cunning as a snake, inoffensive as a dove." - Matthew 10:16, I wonder what the two of you make of it about this verse in the Bible. Dont get me wrong, preaching about the Word of God is one of the essential duty of Christian. However, we are to be gentle and what does "gentle" mean? Furthermore, God commanded us to "Love thy neighbor!" Wasnt it written in the Scriptures that if someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer your left cheek also? What does it mean? It means that Christians are to be tolerant to others and to walk the extra miles to show God's Love!!! If they do not accept it, pray for them, and the matters end there. It is futile (IMO) to start picking beefs with others because they choose not to believe. Maybe that wasnt the intentions of both of you, but you sure did a heck of a successful impression of being superior to others.
ok let me ask you this.. why do you post here then? if you dont care if people like you or not, then why even bother trying to explain to them about christianity? i know you dont really care for any one of us, and i expected that, so why do you still indulge in this debate? why not just leave this debate, and avoid all the mishaps and effort to put in? youre trying to make a point, and the rest of us are trying to make a point. your point is that you want to explain christianity for those who arent christian. correct? We are trying to make the point that you should stop being so arrogant, and respect other religions for what they are, and respect OTHER MEMBERS for what they believe in.. but if you dont see that point, and you still argue senselessly, why not just leave this debate, and avoid yourself from putting unnecessary effort into arguing? or better, just start respecting other religions for what they are. (im basing my statement on what you WROTE and OUR interpretations, and not whatever your intention was.) in the end, either stop arguing, and save yourself some effort, or start respecting other religions and respect other members of PA. we're not asking you to like us. you can hate us for all we care. we just want you to respect us. do that, and we (or i) will do the same. thats all we ask for. "the first step to peace starts with one person extending one hand."
i understadn you dann, from my opinion, whenever a question is put forth, ill answer it with my beliefs, most of the time my answers do nothing to offend anyone BUT anything i type is pounced on by babyrain and it turns into this. as i said, if a question is put to me, ill answer it fully and boldly, maybe people should be careful about what they ask. i had to say wrong thread to a particular person twice in non religion threads and in retaliation that person tryed to report me as a spammer. she has the cheek to pounce on my posts and then say why wont i leave her alone with my belief, it makes no sense...
please dont point the finger at anyone. you always have a choice to either add on to the debate, or refrain from posting comments that will simply fuel the debate. you are choosing to pick a fight with her. i wouldnt do that if i were you. in fact, i wouldnt do that at all to anyone in my lifetime.
im not pointing the finger, im telling you a fact, even that is offensive. i did refrain, it also resulted in babyrain reporting me. maybe if she stops jumping on all my posts things will be better for her.
@ MG, for a fact, i did notice that many a times, BR is being polite to you and addressing certain important issues yet, all you do is being senseless and rude by the way you reply "such as not having time to read and so on....*. Furthermore, you keep attacking her beliefs. If i was in front of you, i would like you to sit down and read my lips about what i have to say: Everyone is ENTITLED to their beliefs, if you disagree with their beliefs is ok, but DONT go about preaching eternal damnation to get a point across. Remember how God was ever so gracious to us before we were Christians. It was because of His Infinite Gentleness that changed our life and won us to Him, not because of someone preaching about eternal damnation. Oh, and in your case if you became a Chrisitan because of that damnation part, im sorry to tell you this: it simply doesnt work because you accept non wilingly but more because of the consequences. Please remove your sig because i find it repulsive that you would laugh at someone's being mad at you. I adont know what you should ROFL about it? Enlighten me would you?-rolleyes
I can't agree with you more. But what the verse means can be interpret based on the actions of Jesus Christ's disciples (whom were the one that the passage is initially speaking to). If it meant, "Don't cause problems and preach according without hurting anyone's feelings" then why were the apostles persecuted and physically attacked by different ppl from all of the cities they visited and preached. The Book of Acts even speaks of what Paul told the Jewish crowds that rejected the teaching of Jesus Christ, to me, Paul doesn't fit into that category of being "nice" and "gentle". he is very strong and straight-forward. are you to say that his way of preaching and showing the word of God to be wrong? probably not. anyways, sometimes I can be very blunt and straight-forward with my comments, like do others on this forum as well. just that they do not post in the religious section or are not affiliated with a religious faction.
fair enough wind, as i said i post non confrontational posts and babyrain jumps on them trying to cause confrontation ive said it once and ill say it again. sorry if not reading essays is a bad thing, i just dont see it like that, i hardly read them and i dont post them. ive been insulted by her countless times this one is one of the more amusing ones, hence its in my sig and tbh she is always mad regardless. there's nothing to enlighten you about.
Wait a minute, now you are trying to turn around and point your dirty lil finger at me?! How conniving of you! I don't 'pounce' unnecessarily on people if I don't find that their posts offended ME personally. But if you are going to put down my beliefs in any way, I am not going to just shut the hell up and let you get away with it. It's true that I said you are free to speak of your beliefs. But REFRAIN from insulting others with your words. How hard is that to get that in your head?! If you choose to be, then fine, you ARE going to keep having people 'pouncing' on you, because YOU pissed them off. I am not crazy, I don't go around flaming people for nothing... I think most of the members in PA will know I am a friendly and rational person by nature. Unlike you, I am not a hypocrite and I don't hide my displeasure. If you disgust me, then I tell you to the face. I don't keep on going trying to show my disgust for you and then say "I don't intend it". I admit it, you DO disgust me and you ARE despicable to me. Because of your behavior. In fact, have you ever wondered why you don't have many friends around here even though you have been here LONGER than me? Kinda makes you ponder right? And by the way, if I observe correctly, I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE who got pissed off by your comments. Many others have voiced their displeasure against you. Why are you singling me out?! <_< Dude, I made a comment in the thread, and what do you do? Post something like "Wrong thread -nono"... I mean wtf? It's not like I am the only one on PA who went offtopic in any posts. Even the mods admit that PA has a laidback attitude towards members' posting styles. So if you choose to answer or ignore you can do so. But if you post some BS pointless crap like "Wrong thread -nono" TWICE in a row to garner yourself posts count, then of course, i HAVE the duty to report you as a spammer, haven't I? I report you because you were SPAMMING, not because of who you are. And I told you, you can REPORT me, if you think it's wrong thread and I am spamming. But you didn't! -whistle And Wind, thanks for standing up for me. I think your post spells it out clearly that even a bystander knows the whole and true story. -^_^ And oh, it's no problem with him quoting that... LOL. In fact I find that really amusing... So someone DOES go into MY INTRO THREAD quietly to check out what I have been posting.. Is that stalking or what?! -shock So he IS cunning indeed... I never knew he would go into MY INTRO THREAD.. LOL. Do you have a secret crush on me or something, Master_G? <_< LOL, and the funnier thing is, HE admitted that HE is the Master of Crap! Lol... Nowhere in that post of mine did i mention Master_G... -whistle And to Apollon: That course was organized by a Christian church, by CHRISTIANS. (NOPE, Not a Catholic).
that is true. many Christians like myself are won over by God not on the aspect of fear in eternal damnation. but that since we are condemn to hell, God is willing to save us out. The aspect of God's love for His creation can be tied to eternal damnation. However, if one can only see the aspect of Hell and not the loving gift of God. Then I question their motive of understanding Christianity.
..and the Jewish people have the right to reject the teaching, no? Even if it's been written in that bible, isn't it up to the people to use common sense? Because Paul went that way it doesn't mean everyone has to follow his way of doing? Couldn't that part be written in there as a warning for others there are different ways to 'preach gods words'? Do you have to take things written in the bible literally? Also chopping up a baby in two if god ask you to do so?
How would you interpret "Shake the dust off your feet if that family rejects you?" (cant remember exact quote since i dont have a Bible in front of me). Did God command us to rub it into the face of non-believers about eternal damnation when they reject the message? Being strong and straightforward is not wrong, but time and time again rubbing it to prove a point is. Besides, have you forgotten what the message about Christ is? It is to preach the Salvation and Love, not judgement. Why is God willing? It is because He loves us and wants to offer us what is best. WE as His children should do the same, extend the LOVE which He bestowed to us and to pass it on to others so that they can experience it also. However, at the rate where it was going, LOVE was no longet the message but Hell is, which is sad.... It leads to ppl to think that God is dictatorian and not loving at all.
The correct verse is in Matthew 10:14 "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. i tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town." so, are you implying that if someone doesn't want to accept the word of God and his gift of salvation, we should stop trying and leave their decision up to God (which has an obvious and already known outcome)? well, i think so, but before I "shake the dust of my feet" I want to give it my best shot. if i remember correctly, i did state in my very first post in the whole religious forum that i don't like to preach about hell and that isn't a good to convert an individual to Christ. however, some ppl likes to blow what i say out of shape and reference. and also i want to add that after what Paul and Barnabas said that to the Jewish crowd, they did indeed "shake the dust off their feet". ok to answer each respectfully. Yes, they have the right; but they need to know there are consquence for their rejection. Sure, common sense is needed. Of course, but Paul is an example of a successful missionary and his dedication and love for Christ is adorn and respect from Christians to non-Christian alike. No, it couldn't. B/c if that were true, why wasn't there an counter-point made to correct the readers of that passage the suppose "wrong" way to preach. i do take it literally, since it is in quotation and it uses the word "answered", Paul and Barnabas answered them bodly << which means they literally spoke to them. wait, are you asking me if i would "chop" up a baby in two if God ask me to?
BRain has the right to be mad. and so does everyone else for that matter. she only insults you because you insulted her first by attacking her beliefs. and mine frankly. she might be feeling frustration as she did try many attempts to be polite to you. you dont return them. i understand where her anger comes from. and here you are laughing at her emotions. that is the worst type of insults, and you have just lowered yourself to the level of a brainless amoeba. you call yourself a christian? no proper christians would attack other people so dishonestly as you have done. its a total disgrace. and dont you DARE say that she started everything, because if we all recalled correctly, it wasnt us who started attacking other religions. this has gone beyond religion. ithis has now gone to the roots of life, of what it takes to be an honest living being: respect.
I think you have just skimmed my posts. I said if they reject your preachings, PRAY for them. Does praying = care less for them? Hmm, i like the word "literally". In a scriptural passage, it was written if a member of our body causes us to sin, we are to remove that part of the body. Have you removed atm apollon?
Yes, in practice I would also agree to that. However, we in a forum and the best way to preach God's word is by "typing it down". if anyone needed my help with anything, i will be more than happy to lend a hand or even both. but it is very difficult to do so physically. since, we are so vastly separated b/c of the internet. So telling of God's love, the life of Jesus Christ, the gift of Salvation and yes the aspect of a literal Hell - the description of Christianity can be seen and understood. but i have covered the aspect of why God is a loving God and Hell can be used to speak of God's love for his people. He doesn't discriminate who is to be Christian, nor does He prevent anyone from becoming one. so, He is God, but a loving One.
Woah, don't act like you nose is bleeding! You do post and say things that hurt non-christians' feelings, Hell, you even say things that can hurt your fellow christians like the Catholics by denying they're are christians. Even when others have warned you on the way the things you say that can hurt others feelings and you making several excuses for it (like saying you've been misinterpreted, didn't mean it that way etcetc), it won't stop you to repeat your behaviour over and over. So you hardly read essays huh? But you didn't mind to read the crap like in this link http://www.insightsofgod.com/HTML_TESTIMONIES/former_buddhist.htm you have posted? Oh sure, if it's pro christianity text/essay you will read it ofcourse, not if it's anything else... http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=38743&dict=CALD ^THIS I personally find it offensive, even as an Atheist/semi-Buddhist! -angry Really, dunno in what place you live in but like BabyRain I too can have civilized discussions with people from other religions, incl. both Catholic and Protestant believers and there was no insults or whatsoever involved. This kind of attitude leads to intolerancy and you want respect?! And you didn't even answered BabyRain why you've made that comment despite the fact she'd asked you a few times about it but you keep dodging her questions directed at you but don't mind to keep posting on other things in the same thread, that's just rude.
I am curious to know who are these 'some ppl' you are referring to? By the way, I did some digging and here, I am going to show people how you, apollon, are grouped by me in the same category as Master_g... See, I have tried to address you nicely, but what did you do? You gave me a tongue in the face and said Christianity is still the only way. That implies you are calling my beliefs false and you are insulting the rest of us non-believers. Even if YOU BELIEVE that Christianity is the only way, is it necessary to post that out just to provoke others? With a tongue-icon too. It's like I offered you a handshake, but you spit on my hand... <_< Therefore, you don't deserve any respect from me. Even you said it yourself here... You said I WAS NICE to you. Yeah, keyword being WAS. Just as I was once friendly and courteous to Master_G when I said, "Be cool and stay cool " But what did you guys do? You made me lose my respect for you with your despicable and ignorant behavior. Trying to act like you are superior than us. Why should I give my respect to those who are not worthy? Here's another point of interest... You just CLAIMED to take the verses in the Bible SO LITERALLY. OKAY. Fine. Now, I have this point that I would like YOU to address. Do NOT dodge it. Since you take the verses in the Bible literally, tell me which if ANY, verses said that NON-BELIEVERS are sent to Hell?! Below, I shall post Master_g's previous post of verses he claimed that said that, but NONE of them did mention it LITERALLY. So tell me, why the extra interpretation that YOU came up with huh? <_< I am even posting Dann's and my replies to the verses, as proof. So tell me apollon. You take some of those verses LITERALLY, and choose to interpret EXTRA words from some of the OTHER verses?! A matter of selection huh? Should I say you are interpretting things to YOUR convenience then? And PLEASE, do NOT dodge Wind's VERY VALID point either
Praying is surely not caring for someone less. but, if one has the ability to show and tell of God's love and salvation; why simply pray for that individual? be filled with the Holy Spirit and take action appropriately. Well that situation that you gave, I have ponder over. did Jesus Christ literally meant that we should mane and dismember ourselves? No, I don't think so. Firstly, lets take the situation of the lust of sexual desire described in Matt. 5:28-29. is lustfulness rooted in our eyes or our mind? obviously, it is in our mind that we lust. so, pulling out our eyes would not solve anything except show the dreadfulness of not wanting to go to Hell. that ppl are even willing to pull out their eyes to prevent themselves from going there. it shows that Hell is a horrible place, no fun and games. Jesus Christ is telling that a person would want to cut off their own bodily member to prevent themselves from going there. showing the intense nature of Hell. i don't get your question, "Have you removed atm apollon?" Have I removed "at the moment" apollon? was that it?
