North Korea - WMD?

Discussion in 'Korean Chat' started by negiqboyz, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. negiqboyz

    negiqboyz Well-Known Member

    It has been years of failing diplomatic efforts, I really wonder when we gonna take them out rather than giving them time to develop and test more new weapons. I hate war but it seems that we have exhausted all our resources to establish peace. It's better to strike now than sorry later. What do y'all think about North Korea's threats?
     
  2. Jeff

    Jeff 神之馬壯

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    South Korea's thoughts about North Korea from a foreigner's perspective.

    If you can't watch.. in short..
    1) Media blows things out of proportion
    2) The rest of the world is more scared than South Korea

    My opinion: If there is a war with North Korea.. I would think nuclear weapons are involved. Would really suck cause most of the world will be dead or slowing dying.
     
  3. EvilTofu

    EvilTofu 吃|✿|0(。◕‿◕。)0|✿|吃

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    We will miss all the Kpop variety shows...etc, My main concerted, j/k...somewhat.

    It's an issue all the parties has talked about for a long time, too many concerns and issues if it does happen.

    I don't think a lot of South Koreans want to go to war and you need the public to support this war. Unless something major happens, these people don't want war.

    Seoul would be in a sea of fire with all those artillery aiming at it.
     
  4. Jeff

    Jeff 神之馬壯

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    With the crazy advancement of technology.. I'm sure no one wants to experience these deadly weapons. I sure dont.
     
  5. surplusletterbox

    surplusletterbox Well-Known Member

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    More time and more diplomacy will work out in the long term. Give them food and especially Chinese Pekin Roast Duck and rice will work out. Remember war is not about glory and victory. War is crime against humanity and we are all one species/humanity. The lives of ordinary people will suffer, you must not forget the ordinary people (99%) who have no choice to fight or not to fight. It took China two generations to recover from the wars to reach where we are today with enough food and drink. Just look at Vietnam and the suffering of Agent Orange continues. Look at Afghanistan and Iraq, the war was over in days but ten years on the people are suffering with millions of refugees. In Europe, most country only just recovered from the war debts recently. Also look at Libya.
    Kim Jong un grew up in Switzerland and he has an excellent idea of how things could be better. Patience and time will work out best. Do not get misled by the initials WMD, utterly bad it is, it is toothpick compared with the huge number of WMD in USA. Furthermore they have very limited capability to launch massive strike compared with USA combined with South Korea. Do not get deceived by the media and politicians. There must be hidden classified state confidential agenda that we are not aware of.
    Lastly, you must also consider that war has impact on business, business then impact investment and stock prices, for us our investment and pension value will take a nose dive, oil prices may shoot up. The winner will be the traders trading on our misery. Prices of electronic gadgets would shoot up.....on and on.
     
    #5 surplusletterbox, Mar 30, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  6. westkikass

    westkikass Active Member

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    The only country in the world which wants to start a war is the US. Don't get suck into these media propaganda bullshits, they want to stir up the world stability in order to make money and take control. We'll be more sorry if they take any strike at North Korea especially in the East Asia region.
     
  7. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    One of the most amazing things that I never quite understood, was how the ROK, after losing Seoul twice to the DPRK, insisted on keeping their capital where it is today? The should have moved it years ago to the south. Instead, their most important city is within artillery range of their worst enemy. History is a great teacher, if a somewhat cruel one. Most in the south, especially the kids, are deluding themselves if they think that living in a re-united peninsula would herald a pan Korean wonderland. The simple fact is, that their northern brethren had been taught to hate the south from the day they're born. The north wants what the south has, minus the southern lap dogs of the west who live there. In other words, they would take the south, and far from uniting with the people of the south, they would exterminate all southerners because they've already been tainted by western ideas. That is, they don't want to unify 'with' the south; they want the south, period.

    Unfortunately, the US and ROK blinked back in 1994. Instead of attacking and then suffering the thousands of casualties then, we may now look upon suffering millions of casualties as we let the DPRK finally get nuclear weapons. We need to attack and do it soon, before they get more advanced with technology and develop more accurate long ranged weapons.
     
  8. surplusletterbox

    surplusletterbox Well-Known Member

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    If you wondered about the story of W M D see this youtube video from BBC Panorama broadcast about two weeks ago www.youtube. com/watch?v=UOsHLA1CMPI remove spaces or go to youtube and key in "bbc panorana spies who fooled the world"
    Published on 19 Mar 2013
    Documentary 2013 - Panorama: On the eve of the tenth anniversary of the Iraq War, Panorama reveals how key aspects of the secret intelligence used to justify the invasion were based on fabrication and lies.


     
  9. lol I can't help but feel pity for the North right now. China just mobilized some troops along their border, in heightened alert. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia already did the same.

    All NK wanted to do was to be given a bit of attention and be recognized :(

    lol
     
  10. Knoctur_nal

    Knoctur_nal |Force 10 from Navarone|

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    who's got the biggest wmd.
     
  11. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    There's a problem with the premise of this (using the fact that Bush et al, bamboozled an anxious American public into a needless war with Iraq) in terms of the debate as to what is happening on the Korean peninsula, where a state of war has already existed since the 1950's. Legally speaking, in the Korean debacle, the United Nations and the communists in the North signed an agreement to stop the shooting; the Republic of Korea (ie. south Korea) objected to the language of the cease fire agreement and had refused to sign. The south had since observed the language of the agreement, even as there is nothing legally that requires them to do so. In essence, if they started shooting again, they would not be doing anything illegal as the state of war still exists. That is, they cannot be said to have started another war as the first one never ended for them. Moreover, the DPRK has consistently acknowledged that they're making WMD and would stop at nothing to do so; US and foreign intelligence has also acknowledged that the DPRK in fact, already has WMDs. In essence, all the lies that Bush told about vis a vis getting us into a war with Iraq; are all true for the DPRK. That is why Bush was labeled a hypocrite as he allowed the DPRK a free pass despite real evidence, even as he persecuted Iraq with imaginary evidence.

    As for the BBC's assertion that these 'spies who fooled the world' et cetera; that's a misnomer. The spies, if one can even call them that, didn't fool anyone. Rather, it was the dubious claims that they came forward with, to which even the American and British intelligence community had serious doubts, that was eventually used as an excuse by American and British politicians (ie Bush, Cheney, Blair) to invade Iraq. There weren't any spies that fooled anyone, it was simply dishonest American and British politicians who used their outlandish claims as political justification.

    Thus, using the failures of the Iraq war justification in a discussion about the Korean peninsula is really apples and oranges.

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0727.html#article
     
  12. surplusletterbox

    surplusletterbox Well-Known Member

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    Your analysis is most probably correct ralphrepo I was not applying one case on another. It happened that the OP posted W M D and I happened to have just watched that programme. The common point , if indeed there is a common point, is , as a pedestrian off the street we don't know what al lot of top secret and hidden agenda. What you are told A as a member of the public is infact B that is intended! All wars have a lot of history. Let me stretch one's imagination. Suppose there are two brothers. They all lived in the same house. Then outsiders came along and the two brothers quarrelled and their idealogy became contrasting, then members of the families of the two brothers are killed. The two brothers are still bickering over their differences and own families thought they were all one family but now they want to destroy the other. Now what motivates neighbours and friends coming from thousands of miles to come to help? ( A rhetorical question!) But in the deepest motives, neither want mutual destruction but who stands to gain most where both brothers are badly damaged? (Another rhetorical question!)
     
    #12 surplusletterbox, Apr 2, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  13. negiqboyz

    negiqboyz Well-Known Member

    We know all too well how N. Korea can stand tall .. with the Chinese backing obviously. Otherwise, N.Korea would have long gone dead.

    Anyway, whether it's the media or not, N.Korea diplomacy failed. It's time to take action.
     
  14. surplusletterbox

    surplusletterbox Well-Known Member

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    The news on North Korean WMD dropped dramatically out of the US foreign office department when it was revealed that USA had Boston WMD ! So politically it was bad news to shout about WMD abroad when they have WMD at home. So that was why the news was masked.
     
  15. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    No offense, and maybe it's a bit too early for me, but can you please clarify what it is you're trying to say? I must have read this about five times already and I still don't know what it is you're talking about.
     
    #15 ralphrepo, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
  16. negiqboyz

    negiqboyz Well-Known Member

    second that ..
     
  17. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Albeit symbolic, in what may be the most significant recent development of this latest crisis round on the peninsula, the Bank of China announced that it is cutting ties with the North Korean Bank:

    May 7, 2013
    China Cuts Ties With Key North Korean Bank
    By KEITH BRADSHER and NICK CUMMING-BRUCE

    HONG KONG — The state-controlled Bank of China said on Tuesday that it had ended all dealings with a key North Korean bank in what appeared to be the strongest public Chinese response yet to North Korea’s willingness to brush aside warnings from Beijing and push ahead with its nuclear and ballistic missile programs. Chinese analysts said the Bank of China’s move carried clear diplomatic significance at a time when the Obama administration has been urging China to limit its longtime support for the North Korean government. The Bank of China’s action also dovetails with a longstanding American effort to target the North Korean government’s access to foreign currency. Most countries’ banks already refuse to have any financial dealings with North Korea, making the Bank of China’s role particularly important.

    “I personally don’t believe that this would have been a business decision by the bank alone, and it’s probably a signal from the government to reflect its views on North Korea,” said Cai Jian, a professor and the deputy director of the Center for Korean Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai. “This appears to be a step by the government to show that it’s willing to cooperate with the international community in strengthening sanctions or perhaps taking steps against illicit North Korean financial transactions,” he said.

    And in another sign of international pressure on North Korea, the United Nations announced Tuesday that it had appointed a prominent Australian jurist to lead a panel tasked with investigating human rights abuses and possible crimes against humanity in North Korea “with a view to ensuring full accountability.” Ruan Zongze, a former Chinese diplomat in Washington who is now a vice president of the China Institute of International Studies in Beijing, said the Chinese government was responding to a recent United Nations resolution imposing further sanctions on North Korea after its nuclear and ballistic missile tests and was not responding to American pressure. He noted that the Chinese government had recently encouraged state-controlled enterprises to follow the resolution in their dealings with North Korea. “This is, I think, one of the concrete actions taken by China, that we will surely follow what the U.N. requires,” he said in a telephone interview.

    Michael Kirby, a former Australian high court judge and legal reformer, will lead the human rights panel, a Commission of Inquiry, the United Nations Human Rights Council said in a statement released in Geneva. Its other members will be a Serbian human rights campaigner, Sonja Biserko, and Marzuki Darusman, who is already serving as a United Nations investigator monitoring North Korea. Key issues for the panel include North Korea’s network of political prison camps, believed by human rights organizations to hold up to 200,000 people; the state’s manipulation of access to food as a tool of political repression; and enforced disappearances, including abductions of Japanese. All such abuses may constitute crimes against humanity, Mr. Darusman said in a report to the Human Rights Council in March. In a single-sentence statement on Tuesday afternoon, the Bank of China said it has “already issued a bank account closing notice to North Korea’s Foreign Trade Bank, and has ceased accepting funds transfer business related to this bank account.” A spokeswoman for the bank declined to say whether money in the account would be frozen or returned to North Korea. The spokeswoman, who insisted that her name not be used in keeping with bank policy, said the account had been closed by the end of April.

    The Bank of China was the overseas banking arm of China’s central bank until the 1980s and is still majority-owned by the Chinese government, playing an important role in diplomatic and financial policy. A succession of United States administrations has pressed China for many years to rein in the nuclear program of North Korea, a client state that China has long supported financially and diplomatically as a bulwark against South Korea and the American military forces based there. China has been reluctant until now to join international sanctions against North Korea, but there have been growing signs of dissatisfaction among Chinese intellectuals and possibly Chinese officials about the extent to which the North has shrugged off warnings and pushed ahead with tests in recent months of nuclear weapons and long-range missiles. The United States Treasury imposed sanctions in March on the North Korean Foreign Trade Bank after accusing it of involvement in nuclear proliferation. Tom Donilon, the White House national security adviser, called at the time for China to stop conducting “business as usual” with North Korea. Mr. Cai said that the move by the Bank of China appeared to be “predominantly symbolic,” but later added, “It could have practical consequences, because North Korea is already under such heavy international sanctions, and China is such an important economic channel for it. “If China narrows the door to North Korea, then its economic operations or financial flows could be affected,” he said. “But primarily this appears to be a way of China showing its views about their behavior, so that North Korea is more likely to rethink its actions.”

    The United Nations commission intends to document abuses as a way of pressuring North Korea’s leaders to improve conditions for the country’s 24 million people. Officials have few expectations that the North will grant access to the commission members, but Mr. Darusman said in March that an international inquiry “affords a measure of protection, especially when coupled with the prospect of future criminal investigations and the deterrent effect such a prospect may have on individual perpetrators.”

    Source:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/08/w...rean-bank.html?ref=global-home&pagewanted=all

    I think someone is tugging on Kim Jong Un's coat, and he'd better start paying attention.
     
  18. negiqboyz

    negiqboyz Well-Known Member

    @Ralph - I believe this is just a political act. God knows what happen behind the scene. I honestly doubt that the relationship between China and N.Korea will ever be severed in any way and any time. Chinese government is known for their "political opera" show .. the same goes in regular business practice too.
     
  19. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is; but there are levels of politics. For example, if you and I were the best of friends but had a disagreement, there is a qualitative difference if you spoke to me privately about it, versus publicly embarrassing me with it. In this case, the PRC publicly embarrassed the DPRK. Sure, it was minor and economically almost meaningless; but it was nonetheless a public rebuke. THAT in and of itself, is different from previous episodes.

    Again, I think that most people still misread the 'commie brethren' doctrine as the end all of all red states. Far from it, China had its coming out party upon the death of Mao; the death of two Kims however, did nothing for the DPRK. That's the primary difference between the two states. Whilst they may have been mutually convenient bedfellows a half century ago, they're anything but today. China has massive illegal immigrant problems with North Koreans and the last thing they want is any further instability on the peninsula, as it would drive millions of starving DPRK natives north into China. So yes, this is indeed political opera, but the aria is being rewritten; China is expressing its displeasure with the DPRK and made it public while in the south a new fat lady is about to sing. That is, the new ROK leader, president Park, who quite plainly stated that the crisis - concessions yo-yo of yesterday, is no longer going to be used. She also stated that she will respond militarily if given provocations like the previous shelling of the western island or sinking of that naval vessel. Finally! A Korean with some balls, and it had to be from a woman. Note: her mother was killed by a DPRK agent. So there is no love lost between her and the north.

    Reference: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_1...resident-north-korea-will-pay-for-any-attack/
     
  20. surplusletterbox

    surplusletterbox Well-Known Member

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    OK , I was referring to the Boston Marathon blasts last month and there is plenty of reporting on this but I attach a wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombings

    There was a lot of debate what is WMD and what is IED (improvised explosive device). Seems to be for the same home made device, if used in USA it is WMD and if used in Afganistan it is called IED because of the use of the words to shap the public opinion.
    So I was just wondering that since the official view seemed to call the Boston bombs WMDs, so if at the same time shouting North Korea as having WMD some of the unsophisticated Americans may think that they are the same things! America is a land of extremes, there are exceptional bright people and there are those that you would not trust to tell the difference of two acronymns. Hence the news on North Korea was pulled off the air, at least keep a low profile for the moment. But you can find a lot of debate on what is WMD on the net after Boston bombings.
     
    #20 surplusletterbox, May 11, 2013
    Last edited: May 11, 2013