Skeletons in the closet, finally being aired... (Disclaimer: I am ethnically Chinese, living in the US, have no relatives living or working in Korea, nor have I ever personally set foot in Korea. I speak up about the conditions in the DPRK & ROK only because I abhor oppression and suffering) People use all sorts of rationales and justifications when situations become dire or extreme. In this case, killing your own people and their children too, because of suspected sympathies? Being an amateur military historian, I'm fairly well versed with that part of Korean war history. In the opening days of the war, the south was nearly overrun and it was only by the grace of the Almighty that they were able to hold until reinforcements arrived. Had the Northern offensive lasted a week or two longer (or allied troops arrived a week or two later), Korea would be united under Kim Jong Il right now; so to say that the south was desperate is the proverbial classic understatement. That said, I still hate to judge because I wouldn't know what I would do if placed in that situation. But with a clear mind, I certainly don't think that it would be a solution to anything, except anarchy. A truly sad chapter in Korean history. Other sources: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/07/06/6077571-ap.html http://www.ufppc.org/content/view/7690/35/ http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200807/200807070011.html http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/52667.html Ralph (If you like to continue hearing political news or commentary please vote with your thanks)
daymn thats some really whacked up stuff going on back in the days of the Korean war R.I.P to the victims
Are you a one sided amatuer historian or a neutral one? All your quotes appear to be US centric opinions. I would recommend that if you are multi-lingual is to research the subject matter from as many independent sources as possible. Additionally study and draw parallels in atrocities against humanity throughout the world. Korean is no exception and no worse than the accusors. It is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I appreciate your comments and insights; understand that as a native English speaker, my net sources are generally limited to those that are found in English. And you're absolutely correct in that historic material from a variety of sources ensures that the resultant opinion would be impartial and fair. However, I would hardly call citation of a BBC article as being overly "US" centric; to be sure, it is western but that does not mean that all of the things reported by British Broadcasting is automatically US aligned. I also note that the US has, and continues to be, one of the ROK's staunchest allies, and this is despite the unpredictable direction of often turbulent political winds in either nation over the years. I agree with your comment one hundred percent, that Korean history vis a vis atrocities is not unique when compared to that of the general human historical experience. However, as this forum is nominally for items of Korean interests, I cited the article here in the hopes that others (who have an affinity for news involving Korea) may find it interesting. At the least it would be informative to others that such allegations exists. The item was not intended to be indictment of the ROK any more than a discussion of My Lai would be an indictment of the United States; it was simply a notation of a historical event. Curiously, this event had already been alluded to in mainstream ROK media with the release of the movie Taegukgi [2004] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386064/. (In the story portrayed in the film, the massacre of ROK civilians by the ROK government was the turning point of the elder brother's allegiance.) Similar to how US citizens are learning to face up to many unpleasant facts about their own government, other nations too, have found distasteful things from their own political pasts. As you've already noted, the ROK is certainly not immune, and I agree that it is no better or worse than anyone else's unpleasant history. But I'm a bit puzzled though, by your assessment of the "accusers" in this case; your statement of "the pot calling the kettle black." My understanding is, that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is a ROK government entity and it was their findings that were being discussed. Am I mistaken here; are there others who are accusing South Korea of doing these things (besides the political opposition DPRK, who had already been trumpeting such charges for decades)? Are you saying that the Truth & Reconciliation Commission was misquoted in the western press? Ralph
As do I. I couldn't agree more. But frankly, I puzzled over what surplusletterbox was talking about, as the article quoted came from British Broadcasting, which quoted South Korean sources. The other sources that I linked to were; One Canadian, two US, and one Korean. Hence his statement: "Are you a one sided amatuer historian or a neutral one? All your quotes appear to be US centric opinions. I would recommend that..." ...is inaccurate. Far from being one sided as he's suggesting, my feeling is, he made a supposition and then jumped to a conclusion that's not supported by the facts at hand. As a matter of fact, I had mostly agreed with what he said. My thinking is he mistakenly thought that I was making some sort of accusation or pointing a finger (his comment of pot calling kettle black) when all I was interested in was being community minded, informative, and starting a discussion on this very important topic. Not every politically sensitive post bears an agenda Ralph
so this is like the isolated korean version of a mini holocaust ........ so sad to here this had to happen but things back in the day that may have seemed like a justified way of dealing with a problem is now re-evaluated and im sure things like this will not happen again
The really cruel thing about this was, that the Korean people themselves killed each other's civilians based on suspected ideology. When the south retreated, they allegedly killed hundreds of thousands of suspected communist sympathizers, and the north too killed civilians that they suspected of being right wingers or pro Rhee (then ROK president), as they advanced. What made this particularly an US issue now is the telling evidence that US military and political circles not only knew about it, but allowed it to continue for some time. Then when hints of the massacres started to come out, the US government worked to actively suppress and discredit the revelations. So in essence, even though the US didn't perpetrate the crime, it certainly aided, abetted, and helped to facilitate the massacres. I remember reading about No Gun Ri; in danger of being over run, US infantrymen were ordered to open fire on civilians thought to be infiltrated with disguised DPRK soldiers (which was acknowledged to be an invasion tactic used by the north on a regular basis at the beginning of the war). I thought this was bad enough, but chalked it up to the uncertainty and flux of a rapidly changing tactical situation. This, on the other hand, is totally different. The ROK administration, with US military and political acquiescence, systematically hunted and murdered its own citizens thought to be politically risky. They basically killed everyone that they found on the membership lists of communist party workers. Many people had only joined in order to get the free rice (that the communists were giving out) at the time of near famine conditions post WW2. That meant that nearly 100% of villages would sign the list simply because they got free food. When the war started the ROK, fearful of disloyalty, came in and wipe out entire villages. An analogy would be if a civil war started in the US today; a US government under Bush, using democratic party membership rolls, would go house to house seeking registered democrats, lining them into ditches and killing them. The situation in Korea went on for months, until the British troops forcibly took control of the execution grounds to finally put a stop to it. The ROK needs to recognize this was a war crime; the US needs to recognize and acknowledge its complicity in it. As for your being "sure" that these things not happening again? I'm not trying to be insulting, but that's rather naive. It happened in Rwanda and Kosovo. It happening right now in Darfur. If a war started again on the Korean peninsula, what guarantees can you point to that gives you confidence that something like that can't or won't happen again? From everything that I've seen thus far, it would happen again very easily. Look at the unfortunate innocents that get shot if they wander into restricted military areas; it happens with regularity in the south, and just recently with a tourist in the north. This is occurring while we're supposed to be at peace, mind you. Personally, if the north invaded the south again, I would bet that the DPRK troops would behave like the former Iraqi Republican Guard troops when the invaded Kuwait; they would loot like there's no tomorrow, and shoot their way into people's homes just to steal shit. Ralph
