I was always thinking of this, and people don't be offended when I say this, because I am just questioning in the logic of when people keep saying that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Now,....most of us are reading a bible that was written um... a long time ago... So does that mean, that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the people AT THAT TIME? It really to me, doesn't affect the rest of us because the sins that we are committing now...are well after the death of Jesus. So unless, Jesus comes again (um...let's not think about that) and cleanses us of our sins again, our sins that we commit now don't count right? It's like washing a car right? Once you wash it, just because you washed it the first time, doesn't keep the car clean the next time you get it dirty, because you'd HAVE TO wash the car again.
Christ Jesus died for EVERYONE's sins. The sins that you have done and the sins you are doing now and the sins you are going to do. your analogy of a car being washed is flawed. i perceived Jesus Christ's conquering of sin for us is like a veil covering our body. even though, we continue to sin. as long as we acknowledge that we covered by this veil from Jesus Christ (his salvation and sacrifice for us on the cross) we are well. but i can't emphasize the following point stronger. it is not by works that Christians are saved. but by grace of faith that they are given salvation. so, Christians can repent, repent, repent, and repent so more ... but if they do not truly believe in the truth of Jesus Christ. they are not truly saved. a Bible verse for those who are interested -- i hope i answered your question, drsnoopy.
In that case, where does the whole "not believing in Christianity then burn in eternal damnation" comes in? Coz from your quote, I would say the death of Jesus Christ reversed the "original sin" inflicted on human beings. And then somehow God took THAT decision back and decided to condemn all non-believers to hell instead? Oh, now that someone's asking about the sin and all, I have another question: If a baby died a premature death in the mother's womb, does he/she goes to heaven or hell? Because on one hand, he/she doesn't believe in Christianity (or at least we don't have proof that he/she does) and he/she is still inflicted with original sin. Dying before birth = direct flight to hell? So what gives?
no where in my quotation and my opinion did i make any reference of non-believers going to hell. in my opinion, the usage of hell is misinterpret. originally, the purpose of hell and repentance was aimed at a group of believers. Jesus Christ and the prophets in the old testament used the form of repentance and fear of judgement as a source to motivate and change a breed and habits of an ill nation. in this nation, they ALL believe in one God; therefore the usefullness of hell become dominate. in the same respect, for christians, the use of Hell is strong and accurate. since most christians believe in the exientance of such a place ... therefore, with such a fear, christians are motivate to better themselves. but i do not think the usage of Hell is useful to encourage non-believers to become christians. in my experience, many ppl today ... already assume christian to bring the topic of hell in their methods to convert non-christians. therefore, i use a different method of displaying Christlike showmanship and love. haike, i don't understand what you mean by -- b/c my quote of Colossian is not speaking in any ascept of hell. it is telling of the old mosaic code and covenant of the Hebrew culture concerning sin-related sacrifices that would insured their salvation (which was burnt sacrifice from a pure spotless lamb). now, the ritual is no longer needed. since, Christ Jesus made the ulitmate sacrifice for us. lol. there is second part to your post -- [edit to answer] i believe that the child goes to heaven. since Jesus speak of Heaven belonging to these. (and please don't take my statement out of context. no i do not believe Heaven is run by a bunch of 8-10 year old kids =.=). you have to understand -- seeing from a Christian point of view. our God isn't stupid. all of the questions and concerns you may have are all addressed and compensated. therefore, for a christian ... all we have to do is believe and have faith in our God and Savior.
Hmmm, I guess I was being presumptious in that assumption. Because it was in fact the common practice of Christians to condemn non-believers to eternal damnation (which they have their share of fancy quotes from the scriptures to support) But then if you think the damnation/hell fit in the current polytheistic society? Does that hell only applies to Christians or all humans alike? Or how does THAT work??? I am genuinely curious...
lol. i agree fully with master_g previous statements of Christianity and the Bible. however, there different methods of conversion and showing Christianity to the world. since everyone is different, everyone should be addressed differently when being taught the truth of Christ. << my opinion. but as a Christian, i do believe in the existence of Hell. and those who do not believe in Christ Jesus will have to answer to its punishment. the ascept of hell in a polytheistic society is simple. the ppl are either for us or against us. and for those who are against us ... we, as chrisitians need to understand why and try to help them see the light. hopefully, i answered you questin, haike. if not, please ask again. -emb
how so? prove to me that it is fictional, since non-believer demand us, christians all the time to prove to them that Christianity is real. prove to me that the bible is fake.
Well, I believe the burden of proof herein lies on the people to prove that the Bible is indeed the truth. Anyways, Apollon, I have made a lengthy post on the origins of Bible itself... Perhaps you'd like to give me a rebuttal on that?
quoted from one of my previous post...im not trying to say it is fake but no solid proof that it is true as well...call me a skeptic ;D
@Apollon: I am reposting it here and I'll add a few words. First of all; most, if not ALL the basis of your arguments/beliefs/opinions and what not; are based on the Bible itself. So; given that; in the event someone highlights the discrepancies in the Bible, your 'wall of defence' would crumble... And besides; if you say the Bible is the Truth, what about the rest of the other religions like the Islam where they have the Qur'an? Are you dismissing their holy scriptures as false by a mere assumption that your Bible is the Truth? What about the rest of the other holy scriptures found in other religions? Bear in mind; the scriptures were also written YEARS ago; if not before; the Bible. The Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the book of divine guidance and direction for mankind... So until you can prove with unreasonable doubt that your Bible is indeed the Truth out of all the others; I can only doubt the Christian religion as the ONLY way. _________________________________________________________________ To start with, the Bible was written many many years after the actual events related. Further, the Bible has been translated, and mistranslated, and retranslated many many times. It is similar to what is known as hearsay. I may tell you a version of the events which happened; and you tell the next person; and definitely there's bound to be mix-ups here and there. The Great Priest So-and-so demanded a new translation, then someone else came along with a fresh translation, and then King James I or somebody decided that he would have an authorised translation. Through all this, though, there is a GREAT strain of truth, because the real truths never die, they can be concealed to a certain extent, but to the discerning the truths are always there. In the matter of the Bible, there are strange records written in the mystery language of prehistoric ages. My point is you cannot take the Bible at its actual face value. You would not take the actual black and white letters precisely as they were written, you cannot interpret them literally, you have to use SYMBOLOGY. Besides; writers were hired to compile the books on the same lines using as far as possible the tales and legends which had been passed down (with all their inaccuracies) from person to person. For years after yrs, various committees sat to edit, delete and alter passages that did not suit them. Eventually a book was written which may not teach the real Belief, but which was in effect advertising material to enhance the power of priesthood. Throughout the centuries which followed, the priests who should have been assisting the development of mankind, actively hindered it. The Bible is an esoteric book, and of course it is connected with the Indian, Chaldean, and the Egyptian systmes of symbology. Christ went to Tibet and after passing through India and studying Indian religions, He actually went and studied in Tibet and came back to the Western world with a religion basically of the Esat, but which had been altered to suit the West. If you doubt this, remember that if you study the Indian systems, you will find that all the glyphs and numbers are to be found in the Indian systems, and if only these wretched scientists would have a correct reading of the Bible, bearing in mind anthropology, ethnology, chronology, physiology, and all that, they would have a very much greater understanding of all that there was in history, for the Bible is a most invaluable aid -- if one can read it CORRECTLY - to what went on in bygone ages. Before one can read the Bible, one has to know all about the Chaldean Hierophants, from which one gets knowledge of the Quabalah. So you know the story of Moses and how he was found in the bulrushes by the Pharaoh's daughter. This happened about 1,000 years B4 bcoz there are certain tiles, known as the Babylonian Titles, which give the story of King Sargon. He lived a long time B4 Moses, a very long time b4 Moses, and this story abt a baby boy being found in the bulrushes was the story of King Sargon. The book of Exodus was not written by Moses, as has been generally believed, but instead was made up from various prior resources by Ezra, and in connection with this Book of Job is the oldest in the Hebrew system and certainly dates long before MOses. Furthermore, any of the great Bible stories such as Creation, Fall of Man, Blaming of Women, the Flood, Tower of Babel, were all written long before the time of Moses. These stories are actually rewritten versions of what archaeologists know as the Chaldean tablets. Some discrepancies in the Bible, for eg. consider the first part of Genesis: God said, "Let there be firmaments", and a second GOd obeyed and made the firmaments. The first God said, "Let there be light" and the second God commands some other God who must have been a lesser God bcoz he did the bidding of the first. "Let there be light"... that does not mean daylight, sunlight or artificial light. It means instead spiritual light, it means lift the soul of Man out of darkness that he may perceive the greatness of God. My point is at the end of the day, is, you cannot take a Book : "The Bible was written over a period of 1400 to 1800 years by more than 40 different authors. The Bible is a compilation of 66 separate books, divided into two primary divisions: the Old Testament (containing 39 books) and the New Testament (containing 27 books). It is believed that all of the books of the Bible were written under inspiration of the Holy Spirit." written ages ago, in different sittings, by different authors at face value and claim everything written in it is the truth. Well, how do you know its THE truth? Also, it says under the INSPIRATION of the Holy Spirit... which some of what was written could possibly only be the author's own interpretation of what he might think the Holy Spirit inspired! The Muslims have their Holy Quran; and they can claim that their version of what is written is THE truth. Truth is, no one knows. No one can actually come up and says,"Yes I know the Holy Bible is the truth and everything else recorded in other religions are FAKE". You do not have to take every teaching in the Holy Bible to be what God wants you to believe in. If that's the case; it would be suggesting that all the other records made thousands of years ago by other religions are fake; and that is definitely an unjustified claim. You can be tolerant of other religions and choose to believe in the Goodness and Kindness of God. Never be preaching eternal damnation to others who may not share the same beliefs as you; because that IMO is written by a bunch of priests trying to 'threaten' us into embracing their religion. I don't go around disrespecting Christianity; in fact I think some of the teachings are great but at the same time you shouldn't go around saying that only YOUR religion is the Truth, and everybody else shall be damned for eternity. You may argue that you have seen God and all; but how do you know other people in other religions have not seen their versions of God as well? There are miracles happening in their religions and were recorded down as well. Are theirs merely made of images conjured by demons and Satan whilst yours is the authentic true God? And how do you support that? How do you know? By your own claims? "Because I know"? or "Because the Bible says so"? and then it goes back to the argument of how the Bible came about. Others can say the same thing about THEIR version of a religion so at the end of the day; it's just going to end up in a bickering of what humans think and believe as God's Words but in effect; is their own twisted versions. So I say why waste time on arguing whose religion is better; when all God wants us to do is be loving and caring towards each other?
I apologize ahead -- this is going to a lengthy post. Sorry. BabyRain, i can tell from the end of your post that you were quite frustrate with a previous poster's opinion and statements. but, i humbly ask you to take my opinion, not as an attack on your belief, but more of an understanding of why i believe in mine. and hopefully, in the end you'll understand a little better of Christianity. you are correct in the aspect that through time and humanistic errors. ANY documentation can be alter and accidentally misinterpret, misunderstood, or mistranslated. However, it has been proven that the accuracy of the current bible to its original counterpart is 99% accurate. therefore, with such a high level of accuracy, the question isn't whether the bible is telling the truth or but is the truth, really true? the bible isn't the word of God. it contains the word of God. Therefore, the legitimacy is no longer displayed on the field of whom telling the story. b/c ultimately, it is God that's being shown. personally, my belief in Christianity is not based on how accurate it is historically. it is nice that much of its historical documents are legit. but there are some that are questionable and that is fine to me. for what is most important is not on the legitimacy of the written word. but the spiritual gift displayed from Jesus Christ. the story of Christ Jesus is written in 4 main books in the new testament. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the names of the books and they are called the Gospels. many of the books written in the NT (new testament) are written in a first hand eye-witness point of view. The eye-witnesses wrote down what they saw. And they know, as fact, that Jesus Christ rose from the dead 3 days later (no contexts written in Hebrew or Roman conflict with that knowledge) ... and even more these ppl are willing to dying for this truth (all the disciples were martyred, expect for John). now, place this point of view onto yourself. if you saw a miraculous event and wrote it down. and even was willing to give up your life defending it. isn't the reason behind your written documents true? why would you lie? would anyone die for a lie that they made up themselves? yes, there are examples in today's society that because of pride or misinformation ... ppl would die for a false ideal. however, these first Christians, all of them, not just the main disciples believe in what they saw and was willing to die for it. (for those who do not known -- before Jesus Christ ascended into heaven ... he spoke one last time to his disciples and the people in area. which was thousands of people). now, hundreds and thousands of first Christians (who were eye-witnesses) were willing to sacrifice their own lives for what they know is true ... that is powerful and some-what common sense. and therefore, for myself, it strengthen my belief in this religion. not b/c of its rewards in the heaven ... but b/c Jesus Christ is real. and he did suffer and die for my sins, so that i can have life in heaven. Jesus Christ not only gave the gift of salvation, but godly love.
no. that isn't correct. Jesus Christ died for EVERYONE's sins. not just for those who accept Jesus Christ. -shivering- that's some gentle comedy, ecko. -lol
lol huh? wha?? anyways never read the bible... so dunno how the son of a god could die... and if god was really god.. could go not recreate a son?
aren't we all sons of god? hahaha... technically if u believe in god then he made us all, so he is the 'holy father' of all humanity... so what if jesus was his son, how does that make him more special then the rest of us?
