8.9 Earthquake In Japan

Discussion in 'Japanese Chat' started by fearless_fx, Mar 11, 2011.

  1. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, Fukushima has two separate distinct nuclear power plants.

    Fukushima One (Fukushima Dai-ichi or number one) plant site has a total of six reactors, while its sister operation 11 kilometers away, Fukushima Two (Fukushima Dai-ni or number two) has four reactors.

    The major problems are at Fukushima One, where reactors numbers 1, 2, 3 all have suspected partial meltdowns. Reactor 2 was suspected of a containment breach from a hydrogen gas explosion. Reactor 4 caught fire. Reactor 3 is super hot at the moment and Japanese CH47's are currently attempting to drop sea water on it. Reactor 5 and 6 are being watched carefully but with staff reduced, it becomes highly doubtful that they can get ahead of the curve on this. They are doing everything possible to keep all the containment pools cool enough until power can be brought back on line to start the water pumps again. It literally is a race against time; absolutely frightening shit.

    Breaking news on each reactor at Fukushima One: http://www.cnbc.com/id/42122996

    Also: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110317x3.html
     
    #101 ralphrepo, Mar 17, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  2. I'm getting goosebumps at the thought of that scenario..... Let's pray that wont be the case..


    Though you pointed out the history of Fukushima, it baffles me as to why they initially decided to build a plant on the east coast of the island, the closest distance possible to the ring of fire... Japan is pretty much at the doorsteps of one of the most unstable regions of tectonic movements in the world..

    That's like putting a balloon filled with gasoline over a candle...
     
  3. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    LOL, that's a pretty apt analogy; if I might add... and the candle just got lit.

    Another issue that many commentators have been actively discussing too, is the design decision to place multiple reactor cores in such close proximity to one another. It is painfully apparent now, that trouble at one would prevent the safe or efficient operation of any adjacent cores, allowing a disastrous domino effect and a crisis to uncontrollably widen. The inherent weakness of this design is now glaringly obvious. They were reportedly designed so close together to allow for easier management of power lines and connections into the grid. Further, there are now news report of interviews with Fukushima residents that detail their regret at having allowed the placement of the TEPCO plant in their township in the first place. They express anger and a deep sense of betrayal at what they feel were lies, deceit and a withholding of vital information by TEPCO in getting them to give their land usage permission.

    But a wider analysis is underway regarding Japan's long history of being in bed with industry, and how a current woeful lack of leadership is contributory to the overall crisis. The following is a New York Times article:



    And of course, more Japanese government hemming and hawing:



    Related:

    Evacuated Fukushima residents angered by lack of information on radiation leak

    Japan Nuclear Disaster Caps Decades of Faked Reports, Accidents

    You know, sometimes focus or clarity cannot be achieved until one is literally staring down the barrel of a gun. In that sense, what Japan needs to do is to immediately arrest all the top officials of TEPCO and take control of the company in the interest of public safety. However, given the history of the ineptitude of Japanese governance, I doubt that would ever come to pass; what Japan needs now is a guy like Putin.


     
    #103 ralphrepo, Mar 17, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  4. Myer

    Myer Well-Known Member

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    I was relatively worried by reading this -shock because it's from you and because I assume that you're one of those people who reflect quite thoroughly first before posting anything. So it does sound more than bad.

    At the moment they seem to try to restore power at the plant in order to reactivate the pumps. All the workers there who are now being exposed to the radiation... :(

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/17/us-japan-quake-idUSTRE72A0SS20110317

    Your seem to be too right about this. After the German government has decided to impose a moratorium on the extension of operation periods of nuclear power plants, the German nuclear energy industry are now considering suing the government :nuts:
     
  5. person

    person Well-Known Member

  6. ^ ugh from the same article:

    Comments like this are not necessary... The lost of electrical power, and the reaction and decision time needed to solve this crisis cannot be matched to the human reaction time and decision making time, by a robot... These fucking journalists (referring to the Telegraph) should some times just stfu about things they don't know about.


    But yes, the story of the 'Fukushima 50' is truly inspirational, we pray for the fast resolution to this crisis and their safe return....
     
  7. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    I blush at your assumptions that I'm any more thoughtful than others; but note the second speaker:


    So yes, I'm quite worried myself. My fear is, that Fukushima tomorrow, is going to be a permanent radioactive restricted dead zone like the Chernobyl of today. The real bad part is, that there are six reactors there. Moreover if Fukushima One is permanently radioactive and entombed, Fukushima two (only about 11KM away south down the coast, with four more reactors) cannot survive either. They would have to either likewise entomb it in place (and leave it too, to degrade in situ) or else remove a tremendous amount of nuclear material immediately, almost certainly a logistical or physical impossibility. Hence I sincerely fear that NE Japan is going to be become the graveyard for ten unstable melted nuclear reactors, home to a permanent nuclear wasteland, and never again to be used by living creatures as we know it.

    My fears are heightened by the events that have been ongoing in the news. By dropping water and using hoses from fire trucks, it graphically demonstrates (to me at least) the extreme desperation that Japanese officials (both government and industry) are now facing. That, in and of itself, is spurring the foreign worker exodus, runs on radiation safeguard medication and general disbelief of the Japanese authorities. On the other hand, a silver lining (if one can call it that) in this whole debacle is that the Japanese plants were automatically shut down whilst in the Chernobyl event, it was a runaway reactor that was still going at full blast when the meltdown occurred. Hence, the Japanese sites would likely spew a lot less radiation by comparison. However, I don't think that anyone who lives in Japan is going to think of that as any consolation.

    On another note, there is recently a run on Iodized Salt in China, with even overseas Chinese in the diaspora bulk purchasing the condiment and sending it to relatives in the PRC. Missus Ralph was shopping yesterday in the Hong Kong Supermarket here in New York; table salt and even soy sauce, was flying off the shelves. She noted sales people and passerby gossip that the "...salt was protection against radiation." The WHO (according to a CNN report) states that the one would have to consume roughly 80 Tablespoons of Iodized Salt to get the equivalent radiation protection of one Potassium Iodide Tablet. If you do the math, that's approximately 1.4 Kilograms (or 3 pounds) of table salt, that one must consume on a daily basis. A severe Hypernatremia would likely result if anyone were to successfully follow such a course of "preventive" medicine. Furthermore, Potassium Iodide tablets act to protect the thyroid gland only. The rest of your body will be subjected to the damaging effects of radiation if you're exposed. Hence, the best protection is evacuation; ie. get away from the radiation. Additionally, Potassium Iodide (KI) itself is not a cure all for the thyroid gland either; if taken inappropriately (like some in the US and Canada have begun doing as a precautionary measure) it can induce severe Hypothyroidism, and in people who have iodine allergies, it can be deadly.

    *** Sidebar *** One of the things that perhaps many people don't realize is that US forces in the pacific region are now getting a tremendous workout in its nuclear capabilities. From tracking the radioactive plume to protection of forces, all the standing US nuclear warfare doctrines and policies are being tested without the danger of a real shooting war, something that some in the military may ironically look upon as a golden opportunity, despite the tremendous cost to the Japanese people. I myself am certainly not happy about this; just making a neutral observation.
     
    #107 ralphrepo, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011
  8. Jeff

    Jeff 神之馬壯

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    Holy shit
     
  9. person

    person Well-Known Member

  10. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    I think there's a definite disconnect between the thought of suffering in general and the Japan milieu overall; you're right in that people the world over perceive the Japanese as being fairly advanced, well to do and not in need of an "outpouring" of assistance like other, much poorer places. In this regard, IMHO, the classic stoicism of the Japanese actually works to their aid disadvantage. The last I heard, up to half million people may be homeless right now. Sure, Japan is a "rich" nation but one has to understand that it has been in a nearly two decade recession. Japanese homelessness and poverty is a social phenomenon that is usually well hidden, especially from foreign view. Again, their cultural penchant of presenting a good facade, or not hanging out one's dirty laundry for public view, makes a genuine gauge of their real needs hard for any outsider to discern. Moreover, with the new UN coalition efforts against Libya, I fear that the Japanese aid effort has already fallen off the public radar. Sadly, the world has already channel surfed on to something else.

    Insofar as "rescues" are concerned. I don't think there are many that will be coming out overall from this disaster because of the mechanism of injury involved. In simple earthquakes, ever powerful ones, void spaces can be created by falling debris that serves to protect the lucky few (like in Haiti and China) allowing time for rescuers to find them before they succumb to the elements or starvation. But in this case, even those that were entombed uninjured into void spaces; those void spaces, I suspect, were soon eliminated by the the churning motion of the tsunami. In other words, the protective cocoon of the void suddenly became a meat grinder of fallen, sharp jagged concrete and timber. This too, is the same reason why so few intact bodies were found in the World Trade Center terrorist attack; the victims' remains were just pulverized. In this case here too, the water also served to drown the victims even if the debris field motion didn't kill them. In such "time is of the essence" situations, rescuers should concentrate their efforts on the margins of the debris field; that is, where there was quake damage but not areas that had been submerged or moved by the tsunami, where there is unlikely any who could have live through that movement. The exception to this of course, is the lucky few who happened to have been in their car as the vehicles were picked up and washed away. Instead of a situational debris cocoon (like that of a simple quake), they were ensconced in a semipermanent one that was relatively watertight. Those that were lucky didn't have their windows smashed, allowing them air to breath as their car's shell protected them from being cut apart after they were carried away by the churning debris field motion.
     
  11. person

    person Well-Known Member


    Yeah, that's very true. I've been discussing with a friend of mine, we're both collecting donations for japan relief at school, and we've noticed that not many people are interested in donating.
    I know that there are those who believe this is karma, payback for what Japan did in WW2 or Pearl Harbor, - and hey, I can understand that from those 60+ who actually went through that... but for MY generation to jump onto the bandwagon and just say such hurtful things when they haven't done the proper research, is just very ignorant. Pisses me off too.
    I'm incredibly grateful to those who have donated- thank you! But I've spoken to a few who aren't donating because 'oh Japan is pretty rich. I don't think they need the help'
    I've also found that Japan hasn't really been asking for help. People are less inclined to help when they aren't really asked of it.

    Yeah, currently half a million are homeless, thousands are still missing. Japan is currently running low on food, water and medical supplies.
     
  12. Myer

    Myer Well-Known Member

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    This is really not an encouraging prospect, although the situation seems to be stabilizing. As can be heard now some food in the region has become contaminated.

    I find this news rather funny, it's interesting how people can react to mere rumours, how irrational it may be.

    Oh, I haven't considered this aspect so far. Thanks for this and the other insights!
     
  13. person

    person Well-Known Member

    I was collecting donations for Japan today, and I got a counterfeit $10 bill... girl gave me $15, so I'm not too sure if she knew...
     
  14. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Almost a month after the quake, and the power plant debacle is still with us, with Japanese and TEPCO officials finally admitting the seriousness of their problem. Japan has raised the severity of the accident at Fukushima to be on a par with that of Chernobyl. But, given the Japanese habit of not telling the public anything until after it's too late, I wonder if there is even more that we have yet to know about?
     
  15. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Post on quake related news; persistent radiation problems with TEPCO mishandling:

    http://www.dramasian.com/forum/show...t-Around-World?p=931876&viewfull=1#post931876

    It's hard to believe that this was barely two months ago. Seems to me that people have just sort of forgotten about it as one barely hears anything about quake or tsunami in the news anymore; shame that the world has such a short attention span.
     
    #115 ralphrepo, May 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 27, 2011