2 HOT CHICKS on Religion!

Discussion in 'Philosophy & Religion' started by CrazyMoFo, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. The conspiracy theorist part of me thinks that rather than they let religion take over, they actually used religion as an advantage, as a mass control device.

    Another aspect of religion that we haven't really discuss in past threads is its used in the political agendas of the state. If we look at each of the empires that were the top power of their time, one thing remains common: religion. When I explored the crusade era castles in France, the history of Constantinople in now-Turkey, and other locations in Hungary, Czech Replublic, Germany and Austria, those in power used religion as a means to control their citizens. With this control they were able to direct their nation efficiently into power.

    For example, the concept of reincarnation was something that was believed by Christians. The Pope at the time rejected that concept, as soldiers were afraid the enemy they killed would come back to haunt them. That's when the concept of Heaven and Hell was introduced. I can't find a source for that, as I learned it while touring European historical sites.

    edit (added paragraph): Take the Crusades for example. We learned that the Crusades was a war believed to be on religion. But if you think about it, at that time, which group were the richest? The Persians. And so everyone wanted a piece of them. The problem is, if you are a country that doesn't have enough resources to pay your troop, how do you motivate them? Religion. People would fight to the death in the name of God. In the present day, the same thing occurred at the start of the century. US went to war in the name of terrorism. But I ask myself, is that really the case? People are motivated for revenge after 9/11, and so they are ready to fight terrorism. In my conspiracy theorist mind, America was in need of fossil fuel. And where else but in the Middle-East had more oil (except Canada lol) ? This was an opportunity for America to get oil, in the guise of war on terror. I might just be crazy, but there's an undeniable parallel between the Crusades and War on Terror.

    As for "look where they are now", we can't be certain if religion was in fact the cause of their decline. It could very well be, or it could be due to mismanagement of economical assets, or even purely due to corruption and greed of those in power. At the time religion was convenient to use to manipulate the population. Today, it was war against terrorism. So whatever leverage a government can use to control its people without them knowing, they'll use it. It's not religion that's the problem, it's people.

    Anyway this is leading towards speculation, so I'll digress. The point is, we're not sure if religion was actually the cause of the negative things that have occurred. If you look the other way, religion has helped (some) people live a happier life. And we should be happy for their happiness.
     
    #21 Dan, Oct 24, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  2. CrazyMoFo

    CrazyMoFo Well-Known Member

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    NOoooo....Don't go! LOL

    and I agree religion is to control people.

    For islam i think it did have a negative impact and it is controlling the country in both political and non political ways. Like oppressing women, not allowing them to be educated or even drive! They literally believe in the Quran so they rejected science. Just google the history, it's sad.
     
  3. To be completely honest with you, I don't blame believers anymore. I don't blame those of them who force their beliefs on me and trying to convert them. It's human nature and you can't change their nature. This kind of made me realize that I should focus on making sure I don't turn out like them, and that I should focus on my own self-improvement rather than concern myself with things out of my control, like what people believe and what they try to do to me.
     
  4. warriorsage

    warriorsage Well-Known Member

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    Matrix movie? Not quite right
    that's the point, i don't try to proof there is a deity or mention about a deity
    and you said if a god do exist , it's an illusion, the 'deity' are also an illusion
    my definition of theist, atheist, agnostic = they believes in images of God or Reality and i don't believe in images of God or Reality

    technically, i am neither theist, atheist, nor agnostic
     
  5. CrazyMoFo

    CrazyMoFo Well-Known Member

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    Then what are you trying to accomplish here? Why are we even having this conversation and what do you believe in?
     
  6. CrazyMoFo

    CrazyMoFo Well-Known Member

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    I try not to blame them either. But sometime it's hard not to. Look what the creationist just try to past in Texas for school curriculum. They wanted to add creationist teachings and remove evolution from the curriculum. If people are like you with your mentality to just leave them alone and focus only on yourself. Than the law would've past. You may say, well that's only in Texas, but Texas is a big state, once they pass it, it will be a domino effect, passing the law to all other states. Next thing you know we'll be teaching creationist to the next generation. That's why I can't stay silent, that's why I have to voice my opinion.

    In order for you to improve yourself, your surroundings has to also improve......
     
  7. warriorsage

    warriorsage Well-Known Member

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    as i wrote before, the mantra is 'further' , my only message if any is that.
    and i am also still 'further-ing'
    but i know it is difficult or nearly impossible for people to convince anyone in any subjects if different point of views, so i usually don't bother nowadays. Should find out why it is difficult

    but
    http://www.jackmartinleith.com/images/spiral-dynamics-leiths-worldviews.png
    i google images of 'spiral dynamics' , there are many, but i choose this one for now, just look at the 2nd row.
    Until you reach another point of view, you won't get it and reject it, and once you reach the other point of view, you don't believe the previous ones.
     
  8. CrazyMoFo

    CrazyMoFo Well-Known Member

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    obviously, you are much further ahead of me in the 7 levels of consciousness. Because I don't get you at all. And since I'm arguing with everyone and challenging all aspects of life. I guess i'm a level 6. Since you are ahead of me then you must consider yourself at the top level. Well congrats you are now in god mode level 7 and I still don't know what this has to do with what we are discussing. Are you against everything I have said or are you in agreement? Because it seems like you can't decide which side to stand on. Not very good for someone at level 7 god mode!
     
  9. warriorsage

    warriorsage Well-Known Member

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    hehe, first, it is like temperature, it is C or F degree. 100C or -100C is just is. 100C is no better or worse than -100C or vice versa.

    So i am not against you or anyone (including those chicks), there are words just spontaneously come up from depending on which level.

    If analogy again, using a human body, say the fingers are arguing each others, the thumb argue with the little finger, their shape different, their abilities are different, the little finger is able to pick nose, and the thumb say it is gross or maybe wow it is good, the thumb is able to do other trick, and the little finger say something else about it. And they don't realise they are not just fingers, they are body as a whole. So how could a body decide which side to stand on?

    In other word, we are the same body, but looking from different point of views. The goal if any 'further' is to realise you are the body, not just intellectually, but experience it all the time.
     
  10. warriorsage

    warriorsage Well-Known Member

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    you probably don't get that too, lol

    here better wordings
    http://www.anhglobal.org/en/node/591

    remember though, don't dismiss their validity, until you have first person experience, that's what real scientist do
     
  11. CrazyMoFo

    CrazyMoFo Well-Known Member

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    REALLY?? Mystical Guru Deepak Chopra? Sorry that's someone I can't listen or agree with. He is a fraud. No wonder you write and sound just like him. Now I get you and where you stand. No need to further explain.
     
  12. warriorsage

    warriorsage Well-Known Member

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    that's what i meant, hehe, hear that a lot, so now i don't bother explain too
    btw, you are not level 6
    as long as everyone happy, that's all mattered
     
  13. CrazyMoFo

    CrazyMoFo Well-Known Member

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    LOL but you are definitely level 7! Or at least u think u are! And if u hear that a lot, what does that tell you?
     
  14. warriorsage

    warriorsage Well-Known Member

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    there is a theory of 'spiritless human', and after further observation, it tell me there maybe such thing as 'spiritless human' afterall - google that, read few of them

    one of the characteristics is "-explain away weird phenomena with orthodox rationalizations"
    " They lack comprehension of anything beyond the material sphere of the five senses, and have no interest in such metaphysical matters "

    they are right on one thing, when they die, they cease to exist.

    and if that theory is true, you are the Agent Smith, lol
    there is an Agent Smith in the house, people
    (if i try to be nicer to you, you got influenced by the Agent Smith too much, but let see how you reply to this)

    That Matrix movie is amazing analogy
     
    #34 warriorsage, Oct 25, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  15. CrazyMoFo

    CrazyMoFo Well-Known Member

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    Atheist vs Christian

    I'm liking this chick more and more. WarriorSage....are you the dude in the 1st video? LOL - j/k



    This one is for you Dan. Kinda along the line of the video you posted.

     
  16. warriorsage

    warriorsage Well-Known Member

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    i watched the videos, Lol, not exactly, so i copy and pasted articles below, better wordings
    as i said before, further further further (for those who want to) and i am also skeptical to find higher 'truth'
    and i don't and will not get it, until i experience myself

    Atheist have faith too - in their ego and intellect (which can not tell the difference between truth from falsehood)
    but i think it is all ok, why hurry people up, enjoy the rides and games in the human experience's amusement parks

    "The greatest problem of these different stages—and the biggest reason it is so important to understand them—is the sense of threat that exists between people at such different points on the spiritual journey.
    To some extent, we all may be threatened by the people still in the stage we have just left, because we may not yet be sure or secure in our new identity. But for the most part the threat goes the other way, and we particularly tend to be threatened by people in the stages ahead of us.

    People in Stage One will often tend to appear like cool cats—seemingly nothing bothers them very much. But if you are able to penetrate that facade, you find they are terrified of virtually everything and everyone.

    People in Stage Two are not particularly threatened by the Stage One people: the sinners. They love the sinners, seeing them as fertile ground for their ministrations. But they tend to be threatened by the skeptic individualists of Stage Three, and more than anything, by the Stage Four people, who seem to believe in the same things they believe in and yet believe them with a kind of freedom they find absolutely terrifying.

    Stage Three people, the skeptics, are not particularly threatened by the unprincipled people of Stage One, or by the Stage Two people, whom they simply toss off as superstitious idiots. But once again, they tend to be threatened by the Stage Four people, who seem to be scientific-minded like them and know how to write good footnotes, yet still somehow believe in this crazy God business. And if you mentioned the word "conversion" to the Stage Three people, they would see a vision of a missionary arm-twisting a heathen and they would go through the roof.
    I have used the word "conversion" rather freely to describe the transition from one stage of spirituality to the next. It is, however, a markedly different experience in each case. Conversions from Stage One to Stage Two are usually very sudden, very dramatic. Conversions from Stage Three to Stage Four, on the other hand, tend to be gradual. For example, I was in the company of Paul Vitz, the author of Psy*chology as Religion, when he was asked when he had become a Christian. He scratched his head and said, "Well, it was along about somewhere between '72 and '76." Compare that to the Stage Two man who says, "It was eight p.m. on the night of the seventeenth of August!" Obviously, a different sort of phenomenon is going on here.
    I have also spoken of Stage Three people—the skeptics and doubters—as being spiritually ahead of the vast majority of churchgoers of Stage Two. These people have also undergone a "conversion"—that is, a conversion to skepticism and doubt, which is something equivalent to what the Bible calls a "circumcision of the heart." They are ahead of the Stage Two man who acknowledges Jesus to be his Lord and Savior at exactly eight p.m. on the night of the seventeenth of August, but may yet have to undergo a conversion to peace or to justice. Conversion is not a onetime thing. Like any kind of spiritual growth, it is a continuing process. I expect and hope to continue to be converted until the day I die."

    reference
    http://www.whale.to/b/stages_of_spiritual_growth.html
    http://www.whale.to/b/peck1.html
     
  17. There was no need to create a new thread for this. Could have easily merged with any existing thread.

    Edit: I'm just going to shut the fuck up and walk away. I really can't be bothered to reply to the shit that girl says.
     
    #37 Dan, Nov 15, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  18. Knoctur_nal

    Knoctur_nal |Force 10 from Navarone|

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    Let there be one.
     
  19. Brumby

    Brumby Well-Known Member

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    I am having a hard time understanding the relevance in real life on what you have posted. If I were to sum it up it seems to me that everything is just an illusion of individual cognitive abilities. Does it mean if I were to cross a road with heavy traffic and an oncoming vehicle approaches me warning with its horn of an imminent collision I am just to ignore it because it is just sound waves to be ignored; or that the black vehicle is just a spectrum of colour range to be ignored. If my skull is being crushed by the vehicle it just sound waves and an illusion. If I am lying there loosing blood but don't worry blood is any colour you care to choose and is not really blood you are loosing. Finally you are dead but don't worry it is just an illusion as you are not really dead, just that your heart is not pumping and so there is no sound but it is still an illusion.
     
  20. lol believe it or not, what you just said is actual theory devised by many classic philosophers. I cannot recall which ones since I took philosophy a few years ago. But yes, incredibly enough, these are actual philosophical theories. Whether or not we choose to believe in them is another matter however.