Beware!! spoilers of the movie present. Yeah, I saw the movie a while back, but would like to bring it up for discussion here. When the great anton was able to copy himself with Telsa's machine, who do you think is the real Anton? The one that dies, but if that were true, then how do you transfer consciousness? I mean does he think the same as the one that drowns? Because if you think about it then, is he the one that dies?
Interesting question, was also asking myself that after having seen the movie. I think the original one died after the first succesful copy process but the machine was somehow also be able to transfer the consciousness and memories of the original one to the copied one. The one in the end is still Anton as everything seems to remain intact but it's just not the original one anymore. But an other question I have is, is Anton's act considered murder or not? Or is it suicide?
I don't think this is 100% correct, because if you remember what happened in the first trial of the machine, he was the one that was in the machine, and he killed the guy who was teleported far away. So it seems the real Anton might be the one in the machine, and I guess that means he commits suicide.
Hmm, dunno have to rewatch it then. -shrug (seen it was some months ago) But then, how do we know for sure that the Anton in the machine is the original one and not the teleported away version? I loved this movie because it throws this kind of questions at us to think about.
no not the other guy, anton was the one who used the machine haha, But check this out.. So the first time he uses the machine, he had a guy next to the place where he steps in, when the clone(the teleported one) came out, he shot him. Then during the performance the one standing in the machine dies. So from this, my analysis is. If the real one is the one in the machine, then he commits suicide everyday. If the real one is the one that comes teleported far away, the he died the first time he used the machine. I think it is the first, because the movie stressed the fact that he was frustrated, because he was never able to deliver the prestige, it was always his double. So, even with Telsa's machine, he was still unable to deliver the prestige. Even he talks about this delima in the movie. "Everynight when I step into the machine, I don't know who the real me is, I wonder if the real one is the one that comes out or the one in the tank." anyways, I would love to hear more.. because in philosophy no one is wrong.... I mean everyone but me... haha.... but then again... everyone else can say the same about me.
My professor was actually talking about the philosophy behind this movie! We were reading Parfit, and according to him, no matter what constitutes our personality doesn't matter. What does matter is that we survive by any means. So I think the real Anton is the one that's teleported/copied -- he has the same memories and the same consciousness. When he first copies himself, he's committing suicide, as the copy knows that he's planning to kill himself, though.
^ I like that, sounds really interesting, but I just can't seem to let go of the soul. Like I feel different people have different souls, but maybe its kinda like the borg? a collective consciousness? Like they both have a collective consciousness and then the one in the machine dies.... But I gotta say man I love the soul.
I don't care what the philosophy was. All I know is this is a great movie. And if you liked this movie I highly suggest you watch The Illusionist and I think that The Illusionist is a better movie with a better story line. What's the difference between two movies about the same thing? One movie is based solely on what's possible and the other is not. But both great movies with great actors.
^Sure? I haven't seen The Illusionist because I've heard it's mainly a love story? (film critics were comparing them and since I'm not really fond of romantic films I'd thought I'd better skip The Illusionist)
Trust me dude, it's a good movie. It is about a love story but it's not sappy and stuff. I'd tell you how it goes but I wouldn't want to spoil the movie even the slightest.
Warning: Possible spoiler for those who haven't seen The Prestige yet! OK, let's go with your first theory, "If the real one is the one in the machine, then he commits suicide everyday" but viewing it from a different perspective >>> Angier ask himself who's the real him, doubting about his own identity. Set this against the fact that Borden is indeed using a twin for his act; Borden knows who he is and shares 1 identity with his secret brother 'Fallon' which makes their Prestige act so succesful. It is possible Angier had killed himself; it's just himself and even if he uses Telsa's machine to recreate/copy himself there's just 1 of him so to speak. Angier tries to set Borden up with this recreating machine but because the Borden twins apparently share 1 life and don't mind to sacrifice a life for the other, they win after all. (despite the huge sacrifice of the Borden twins) Angier is still the loser in this prestige battle, which correspondence with your first theory that he was never able to deliver the prestige because it was always his double. But that double is just himself.. But then these copies aren't borgs, at best they're clones? And borgs do have some technology parts in them unlike clones? Hmm ok, if even another dude says so, I'll give it a try.
I cannot possibly believe I missed such an interesting topic. Just kind of revive it with my 2 cents. "Original" Anton vs. "Duplicated" Anton My take on that is that the two Antons (when the machine is at work) shares the same identity. Neither is more "real" than the other: while the "original" Anton KNOWS he will die (drown in the tank), he would still suffer and cry for help. Same goes for the "displaced" Anton (or so called "duplicated" one), he is equally surprised to be shot and killed even though he KNEW he will be killed if and when the "cloning" is successful. To me, the two are equal in their existence, while one may think the pair constitute of an "original" and a "clone", I consider it, bizarrely enough, as two "halves". Neither is exactly the same as the Anton before he works the machine, and the one who survives is not quite the same as the "half" of the "artifical twins" either. And yes, I think The Illusionist is a WAY better film, such an amazing drama, keep you on your toes until the very end.
Here is my take on the machine and Anton. The machine does not clone Anton, instead it opens a time portal and grabs a Anton in the near future, like 1 second into the future. Logically you can't clone memories and personality.
But then if the Anton is grabbed from the near future (like 1 second), what happens in 1 second? The original Anton is grabbed from this time frame into the past? I don't know, I am in the school of circular timeframe in regards to time travel so I don't think that will work... And logically speaking, you can clone a person, but not his clothes and all that... So IMO I don't think logic is a high priority in this film there -tongue2
Yes yes, I know clothes are organic and supposedly possible to clone, I decided to ignore the technical difficulties in cloning living organic (human body) and severed organic (clothes) simutaneously. In my model, the two Antons are more like two halves of the same person, thus possesses the same memories and knowledge. The question remains: if the Anton is grabbed from the near future (like 1 second), what happens in 1 second? The original Anton is grabbed from this time frame into the past? When I saw the film, I was WAY too annoyed by Christian Bale's character to actually ENJOY the film. SIGH.
My way of thinking about time is that there are millions of parallel time line running at the same time, each action you choose creates a new line that diverge from the original. So when Anton grabs a copy of him, that time lines stops and merges with the current one we are seeing. I thought Bale's character was a little more interesting in the first 80% of the film, when the whole cloning machine appeared, then Jackman character really caught my attention.
Ah, I know what you mean, my way of thinking is that each "choice" we make "creates" a new timeline (think of it like... path taken and the "possible" path which was not taken), that's why I didn't get how Anton can grab himself from another timeline. Thanks for the clarification -^_^ I didn't really like Bale's character from the very start, probably because I have a bigger soft spot for Jackman than Bale (I liked both of them UNTIL that film, at which point I become indifferent to Bale) I kind of thought that The Prestige was a perfect illustration of "The one who pursues revenge should dig two graves" seeing that Jackman is obviously consumed by his revenge.
