Japan needs Underground Tsunami Bunkers

Discussion in 'Japanese Chat' started by ralphrepo, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    At last count, thousands are still missing, likely swept away by the waters and will never really ever be accounted for.

    My idea is, instead of running away from the water (which takes a lot of time that people obviously don't have), it would have probably saved a lot more lives had there been air tight evacuation underground bunkers (a Tsunami Panic Room, if you will) available beneath each coastal building. Then after the waters recede, survivors can emerge unscathed. The technology is nothing new as mining operations also have safe sanctuaries where miners can go in the event of disasters, and thereafter wait for rescue.

    Just my two cents.
     
  2. RockkxD

    RockkxD Moderator

    I think Japan had went through many ideas for how to avoid possible earthquake/tsunami dangers but when these things come in to mind, it's all about the money. The question is, can the Japanese government fund for all the bunkers? They might be able to do so with a high economy but not with a low end one. Although I think they can consider your idea since they can see the obvious disaster of a tsunami caused by a 9.0 earthquake. I just think Japan would have expected to happen but not expected it to be that fierce and dangerous (underestimated the nature). But just yesterday a 6.5 earthquake occurred again in Japan and what has been done to prevent or at least be prepared for another one just in case? Nothing. But it wasn't that bad, nothing to worry about.
     
  3. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    In reality, it would probably just entail adding a strong door to a reinforced basement, with the knowledge that the building atop it may be ripped away. In other words, the cost would come from ensuring that it can be sealed in an emergency and it would have to be pre-stocked with a minimum of a few days food and water. Considering the total cost of a home, the additional cost of such a basement would be minor.

    As for expectations, (they're calling this a 1000 year event) reportedly there was evidence of a similar earthquake - tsunami combination in the mid 800's that was ignored by TEPCO. An engineer is pointedly telling news reporters that he had given them the data more than two years ago and that the information was dismissively suppressed.
     
  4. negiqboyz

    negiqboyz Well-Known Member

    While I think the idea is great, it's not feasible in reality. Frankly, it won't make much difference. Natural disasters happen at any time of day so it's not like people can hide if they're out on the street or whatever. Even at home; people can't get to it fast enough or even lock it properly. I believe the practicality of it is more important than the funding at hand; not to mention that digging such bunker requires environmental and safety studies too.
     
  5. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me Neg, but I disagree. I think you're ignoring not only the ease, but practicality, and the fact that waterproofed basements de facto are already a reality in most houses. Essentially, a basement is a concrete tub to begin with. It is pre-coated with waterproofing material so that groundwater doesn't leak into it, or else over time, you'll have a sub-level pool instead of a basement. Thus, about 90% of a tsunami bunker pre-exists already in most buildings, and in Japan, they're all earthquake resistant to begin with. Environmental impact would literally be zero. The only thing different would be to make the flooring of the ground floor (cover above the basement level) also waterproof and able to bear the weight of several tons of water and debris. Also, I think you're being disingenuous with your comment that people can't lock a door properly; if that is the case, then shouldn't we just eliminate doors as mankind is too stupid to use them? LOL... No, people in Japan can get on elevators and close the door just fine. I'm sure the Japanese can come up with a way to idiot proof a door, even to your critical and jaded satisfaction.

    As for people in the streets? You're never going to be able to save everyone. But having a simple modification in required construction code (like Japan has done over decades of earthquake construction) could have gone a long way into saving thousands more lives.

    The attitude and defense that Japan has traditionally used to prevent loss of life has been to build sea walls and tell people to evacuate to high ground. However, this event has painfully shown the fatal weakness in sole reliance on such principles. Most city administrators would be reticent, but if pressed, painfully admit that it is now impossible to evacuate any municipality unless there was ample preparation months ahead with government support and the exercise would take at least several days at a minimum. In the case of this Tsunami, the evacuation road jams didn't even occur because it happened so quickly. Thousands of people presumably went home immediately after the quake to check for structural damage and were subsequently swept away. IMHO, had they a reinforced waterproof basement to run into when the water came, they would still be alive.
     
    #5 ralphrepo, Apr 12, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  6. negiqboyz

    negiqboyz Well-Known Member

    ^ i am not sure about you but when i went back vn and kr, there were ppl who literally didn't know how to shut the door properly. no kidding. i haven't seen an underground earthquake bunker so i don't know what the door look like in reality; i just assumed that it has to be tighten quite a bit to prevent leak in or what not. anyway, things like this happened so fast .. can be anytime of day .. not sure if ppl even have enough time to get to the bunker.
     
  7. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Of course they would have time; they will be first awoken by their earthquake alarm clock, LOL...

    Then all they have to do is run into the basement, where they wait for the automatic flood activated door to slam shut. But, the arguments are really moot. To me, it is simply an engineering and mechanical problem that needs to be solved. Heck, if you properly construct an air pocket type of basement, you won't even need an actual physical door at all as the entrapped air would keep water from rushing in. In other words, you're using a water seal instead. Sort of like having an underwater cave where there is an air pocket. In this case, it would be a your own doorless concrete air bubble with hotel accommodations in the basement. All one needs to do is to go down one set of stairs, and then up another into the water sealed air pocket chamber. The idea is to get as many people as quickly as possible into a situation where the rising and rushing water won't kill them. Mass evacuation has been proven to be wholly ineffective by this tsunami as the water will run in faster than people can run. Staying in place would be the least cost in terms of time. Hence, having a sanctuary where one didn't need to evacuate from the area is likely the best solution, especially if the option is already 90% consistent with pre-existing building codes and construction modalities. What I'm talking about is essentially to rethink anti-tsunami strategies and having another level of defense. A sea wall is a good primary defense, but if that fails, then fleeing should not be your only other option, IMHO.
     
  8. negiqboyz

    negiqboyz Well-Known Member

    the tsunami reminded me back in 2005 with the Indonesian tsunami where some islands completely submerged into the water .. now .. do you think underground bunker helps? it really depends on the magnitude of the quake and tsunami; not to mention when the water will recede from land.
     
  9. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Well, if that's the case, then if Japan completely submerges into the water, then it won't matter. Nor would it matter what is done if the high ground that people had ran to, assuming safety, suddenly becomes low ground below sea level as a result of seismic land deformation; yes, I get that. But that generally isn't the case nor has it been the experience with the Japanese islands, a country which has historically been subjected to hundreds of tsunami, both large and small.

    With the water in this case, which receded rather quickly (and suspected of having pulled thousands of people out to sea as it did so) the idea of underground bunkers would still remain viable. One has to look at what is practical versus what is impractical; we could arguably suggest that having helicopters on every rooftop, on standby, would the most surefire way of saving everyone in a tsunami as the helos load and alight within seconds. However, is this idea practical? I wouldn't think so given the tremendous requirements of maintaining air operations for even just one helo.

    Tsunami safety ideas needs to incorporate something passive, that require no daily human input, yet remains perfectly functional on a moment's notice if needed. Again, it wasn't the water alone that killed so many people, but the fluid debris field motion. Once the water has you, you'll be subjected to repeated battery by objects large or small along with the water. The only way to ensure survival is to remain clear of this field; that's by going either above or below the field. Offering everyone a place to immediately run to remains the most effective and practical way of saving as many people as possible. Again, this idea would serve to supplement what is generally used to protect both lives and property (ie. the sea wall). But if that fails (like it did in this case) then it would have at least saved lives.