ok... then IMO, it's still not the right thing to ask people what they want because it is in human nature to survive and achieve what maslow calls self actualization... there are only so many people in the world that have all their needs met, or come to the realization that their needs are met, and therefore choose to solve the world's problems... Majority of ppl are still bound by, essentially, the capital vices and therefore act in their own interests before others... So again, as stated before asking individuals what they want, only causes imbalances as you only fulfill the need of the few... what needs to be asked is what should be done for society as a whole... what can be done to first bring society out of step one, then step two, etc... SO having said that and going back to the actual question, how to better oneself as a human being? Most everyone is still in the rat race, you can either choose to help others along and therefore help urself along, or just mind your own business and continue on yourself... there's no need to destroy each other when you're all just trying to reach the end because the end is not something based on limited resources, it's based on yourself... to ask people to work FOR each other is a mistake and against human nature... to ask people to work WITH each other is a different story, and the basis of liberal understanding of the world(not saying it's a bad thing, just fyi what it is)... take it or leave it...
I get what you mean, and obviously you've made a pretty good point regarding the fact that: 1) "majority of ppl are still bound by, essentially, the capital vices and therefore act in their own interests before others" 2) "to ask people to work FOR each other is a mistake and against human nature... to ask people to work WITH each other is a different story, and the basis of liberal understanding of the world" Obviously taking anything too far is not good, but my argument was not that one should submit to the other, but to take a step back and understand why the other thinks the way he/she does, or wants the things he/she does. That way you have a better understanding of how to create a solution that works for both. Given, say, a scenario between android fanboys and apple fanboys. They rip each other to threads because non are taking a step back to find out why the other likes what they like. The problem with the world is that people have too high an ego to take a step back and try and understand why or what the other person wants. I'm not saying you should find out what the other person wants, and mold yourself to make the other person happy, I'm saying that you should understand what the other person wants so you find a common ground. Going back to the second point you made about working "with" one another. You're right. That's what people should be doing, but they're not. So I ask you this: What would it take to promote cooperation between people with absolutely different point-of-views, when they have such high egos, and think they're right, the other is wrong? You obviously can't change them, so what do you do to yourself in order to encourage cooperation between you and the other?
There are two basic principles in relationship 1. We can only nourish a relationship, that should be our role 2. We can't change other people by telling them to or trying to make them change. It hasn't worked in the entire history of humanity. Even the war is the ultimate defend of point of view So if we change ourselves, we change our relationships too We should lose the need to defend our point of view. It doesn't meant we don't meant we don't have point of view. We are just not rigidly attached to defending it. Afterall, life is coexistent of all kinds of point of views. No two people are going to experience a given reality in exactly the same way. So no need to manipulate other people's experience of reality, as long as we lose our rigid need to defend our point of views. That in itself will improve the relationship. The three keys to effective relationship 1. don't judge, 2. don't rationale, 3. don't defend our point of view If we practice these principles, our relationship become magical, most people spend their entire life defending that they are correct. The moment we stop doing that, we are approaching 'defenselessness' . It is The key to invincibility. It is apply to ourselves also. If we let down of All our defenses, Nobody can attack you, because nothing to attack, and it is the ultimate power, and ultimate power does not allow the birth of enemy. And the mechanic of that , is a simple effective defenselessness. quote Tao Te Ching chapter 17 When the Master governs, the people are hardly aware that he exists. Next best is a leader who is loved. Next, one who is feared. The worst is one who is despised. .. One way to effective communication involves the understanding of people's body type. Different people with different body type interpret reality in different ways. For example, some are much more responded to 1. word / sound and touch, 2. visual / written words / graphic / sight, 3. emotion / taste and smell. So we can use certain techniques to communicate more effective to people based on their body type.
I appreciate your point of view, that of improving relationships. Though if I may make a few modifications: 1) Don't judge: this is perfectly fine, and I agree with this. 2) Don't rationalize. To rationalize is to make excuses. A rationale is "an explanation of the basis or fundamental reasons for something", which is required as basis of research and discoveries. So don't rationalize. 3) Don't defend the point of view. IMO this should be reworded to "Don't be intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas". One has every right to defend their point of view, granted they keep an open-mind to attempt to understand the argument of the opposing party. If the opposing argument is found to be the truth, one should reduce their ego and accept that their point of view is incorrect. This is an example of that:
android and apple fanboys are not a case of people not understanding each other's wants/needs... that argument is a basis of lack of education on products and for people to justify their purchase as a good purchases... fanboys are either insecure(because they were not educated enough on their decisions) or because they're just trolls looking for a laff... very few are truly diehards that will have the world crumble the day they realize brand x isn't the shit afterall... at the end of the day both topics you brought up there is down to one simple answer... survival... either physically, mentally or spiritually... survival is a built in response to humans, that's why the human race will eventually die out, or it will continue to grow and become galactical parasites... you want to live(physical), you want your family and loved ones to survive(mental), you want to be saved by god or level up in your aspiration to reach self actualization(spiritual)... this is what WANT is for humans, and the basis of these "wants" is survival... even as we speak, we are speaking of a topic about how to better ourselves... why? the ultimate goal is so the world can be a better place... why? because we're unhappy with the current state of affairs... why? because it's causing suffering... suffering is? a mental state which you want to gtfo of... survival instincts kicking in... if you want full cooperation within a group, you must first address the needs of the people below the needs of the group... raise them to your level, then you can work together on the next step, or next goal... so basically what do we as humans need to better ourselves? we take our bucket full of fcks to give in relation to ourselves, put it out in the world, and have everyone dive in and take a little bit of those fcks... in that way, eventually we will all have roughly the same fcks and reach for the common goal... eliminate justin bieber... *oh wait... that's one of my fcks...
Bumping this thread to continue discussion from "Has science buried god?", to further discuss about analysing the human personality, mind, psychology, social, spiritual, etc. Warriorsage, in regards to your question about stress from the other topic, I was doing some readings on Vietnamese horoscope (which, btw, I cannot believe how some of the description for the horoscope are spot on... Like their interpretation of some personality types), and the question of "stress" was brought up when I read about the Cat (birth year being 1987). One thing it says is that "The most dangerous thing for a cat is stress". You were right, up until this point, my stress level never reached a point where I lost control of myself, so I can't say if I react with fear and secretive or apathetically and disengaged.. My wild guess would be fear... But another question, does the birth year play a role in enneagram systems?
This is a passage from a book, "In stage three the inner world evidences little activity. Ships don't sail in a dead calm. They rest and wait. The inner world comes alive in stage four, where calmness and peace turn into something much more useful. One begins to understand how reality works, and human nature starts to unfold its secrets. Here are some examples: There are no victims. Everything is well ordered; things happen as they should. Random events are guided by a higher wisdom. Chaos is an illusion; there is total order to all events. Nothing happens without a reason. Let's call this a package of insight, centered on the question of why things turn out the way they do. It's a profound question. We all ask it, but we tend to ask in passing. Our passion is not to figure out the workings of fate. If some things seem preordained while others are accidental, so be it. In stage four, however, fate becomes a pressing issue. The person has experienced enough instances when "an invisible hand" must be at work. The instances may be small, but there is no turning away from them. " So to answer your question, the exact time people are born is not random, therefore not just the year, but down to the date, even the time to be exact, as many of those Chinese or Indian or Western or etc ancient esoteric art trying to figure out, which will determine what kind of personality types and their tendencies. Here some more http://birthdaypersonality.tumblr.com/ http://www.thesecretlanguage.com/check/birthdate/ As for the stress, all people have stresses, from mini stress, to prolong big scary stress that last for long time without we are able to control it, and uncertain outcome, so people with different types just react differently there is another test, scientifically based it seems, to check which enneagram type you are http://petersavich.com/PersonalityAndTheBrain/WebBook/Abstract.htm this one is amazingly accurate, as i was discussing with group of friends of mine, and looking back at people we know for example: type 8 does not usually aware of their fear, and optimistic people because their certain brain chemistry. You can download the free ebook too for more details http://petersavich.com/PersonalityAndTheBrain/
If i analyse from this desciption in http://vietnamesezodiac.com/vietnamese-year-of-the-cat/ "Whatever the reason may be, the cat has now been embraced into the Vietnamese zodiac and is here to stay. Personality Traits Positive: Good judgement 5 6 7 if judgement means logic thinking type, but there are other type of judgement, using heart, and instinct Creative 4 unique, but others can too, different type creativity Cautious aware pessimist type Conservative aware pessimist type Talented , all types too in different ways Ambition 3 for social approval success, others too for different reason Negative: Superficial 3 for image conscious, but all others type too e.g 7, it's the trap of all the types Self* Indulgent all but different areas Stubborn all but different ways, eg. thinking types won't change their 'invented' or 'followed' opinions so easily Mood Swings 4 , 7, but all types have DSM psychological errors" i of course maybe wrong
